Gay Cure Ban Going Up For Vote in CA - Page 3
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  1. #21
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Why is it a shame if they are happier that way?
    On this point we will go around and around. I believe they are definitely not happier that way. We will have to agree to disagree here I think.

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire'sMommy View Post
    On this point we will go around and around. I believe they are definitely not happier that way. We will have to agree to disagree here I think.
    You are right. It is unbelievable that someone could be happier living a normal life. I mean they say they are happier but deep down in some way they must be miserable because you believe they are.

    In a WorldNetDaily article, Michael wrote about why he believes he mistakenly took on a gay identity: “When I was about 13 I decided I must be gay because I was unable to handle my own masculinity.” He went on to blame his father for that, which is consistent with the ex-gay narrative that same-sex attraction among boys is often a result of a deficit of masculinity, usually caused by a fissure in the father-son bond.

    Michael told me that he has no same-sex sexual desires today, a claim that I found hard to believe. Many ex-gays admit to struggling with same-sex attraction years after they’ve rejected a gay identity, and a handful of high-profile leaders in the movement have been humbled by public slips or “relapses,” a word borrowed from the language of addiction recovery. (Many ex-gays see same-sex attractions as a kind of addiction, one with no “cure” but with the possibility of freedom with God’s help.) In our XY days, Michael told me that he had no sexual attraction to women. Had he learned heterosexuality?

    Yes, he insisted, adding that he has dated two women since coming out as ex-gay (both before enrolling in Bible school). Michael didn’t want to divulge much about the sexual nature of those relationships, saying only that neither had been “particularly godly.” “There was a part of me that was like an excited teenager,” he told me. “Whatever God has in store for me next will hopefully involve courtship and getting married.”

    I asked Michael if he’d heard the news that Ben had recently married in Canada. He blinked twice, and his body tensed slightly. “No, I didn’t,” he said. “To a man, or to a woman?”

    “To a man. Were you holding out hope that he would marry a woman?”

    “You have to understand something,” he said, leaning forward in his chair. “I don’t see people as gay anymore. I don’t see you as gay. I don’t see him as gay. God creates us heterosexual. We may get other ideas in our head about what we are, and I certainly did, but that doesn’t mean they’re the truth.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/19/ma...pagewanted=all
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    Many ex-gays admit to struggling with same-sex attraction years after they?ve rejected a gay identity, and a handful of high-profile leaders in the movement have been humbled by public slips or ?relapses,? a word borrowed from the language of addiction recovery. (Many ex-gays see same-sex attractions as a kind of addiction, one with no ?cure? but with the possibility of freedom with God?s help.)
    I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around this. From what I know about addiction, you can be born with a predisposition toward it. It takes more than just that to become an addict though. Some people have absolutely no desire to try crack; others are curious. Those who keep using it got something out of it - a high, feeling good, acceptance, etc. They may become addicted. They may go into recovery at some point to get sober. But for many, it is a constant part of their life from that point on. They may relapse over time or struggle with their addiction.

    Step 1 We admitted we were powerless over our addiction?that our lives had become unmanageable.
    Step 2 Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

    So I can't make the leap with substituting attraction to the same-sex for crack. If we are really going to compare it to addiction, then we would have to accept that some people are born with a predisposition for attraction to the same sex. Step 1 is admitting we are powerless over attraction to the same sex.

    It makes me also wonder if we would allow this "excuse" for straight people. No one seems to dispute that we were born straight and God made us straight. So would it be okay if I go through therapy to help me not be attracted to Brad Pitt but then when I meet him, I relapse and act on my feelings?

    You are right. It is unbelievable that someone could be happier living a normal life. I mean they say they are happier but deep down in some way they must be miserable because you believe they are.
    Normal and happy are relative terms and self-reported. You are no better a judge as to the happiness of people than anyone else. That's why the PP said we should agree to disagree on that one.

  4. #24
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    So you are saying that sex can't be an addiction? Or that all addiction has to be inborn? There are many people who say they are addicted to pornography. Are they somehow born with the predisposition to want to watch pornography?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire'sMommy View Post
    What's to stop a parent then who doesn't give a crap about religion hiding behind that constitutional right simply because they are just bigoted and can't stand the idea of having a gay child? Nothing to do with religion. I am seriously curious about that.

    And, while we all have the right to make decisions that we believe are in our children's best interest, those decision aren't necessarily viewed as being in the child's best interest by social services, courts, and law enforcement. No parent can make a decision for a child that intervenes that child's human rights.
    This. Kids should be free to discover who they are without pressure to conform from bigoted parents. I'm all for therapy to deal with traumatic experiences or to explore one's sexuality in a no-pressure kind of way. This "therapy" does nothing more than tell a child, your feelings are wrong and you are broken, and that is nothing but discriminatory and can't be allowed even in the name of parental rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So you are saying that sex can't be an addiction? Or that all addiction has to be inborn? There are many people who say they are addicted to pornography. Are they somehow born with the predisposition to want to watch pornography?
    But being gay is not just about having sex. It's not an addiction to having homosexual sex. I can be straight and not be addicted to sex. I can watch porn without having a porn addiction. You can be gay and be celibate and you can be gay and have a normal healthy sex life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So you are saying that sex can't be an addiction? Or that all addiction has to be inborn? There are many people who say they are addicted to pornography. Are they somehow born with the predisposition to want to watch pornography?
    I'm not saying you can't become addicted to sex. But that's not what this is. This is calling an attraction to members of the same-sex an addiction.

    No, not all addiction is inborn. The predisposition to become addicted is inborn. Genetically some people have addictive personalities. If they engage in behaviors that could lead to addiction, they are more likely to become addicted. But what you quoted is akin to saying that thinking a strawberry daiquiri looks yummy is an addiction in itself.

    I'm not sure where pornography comes into all this. Getting addicted to porn goes back to the addictive personality. The desire to watch porn isn't an addiction in and of itself. A 17 YO young man wanting to sneak a peek at PPV is not addicted to porn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    yep. Covered by freedom of religion.
    What about the child's freedom of religion? I knew at a pretty young age that I wasn't a Christian and I believe my life would have been far better if my mom had stopped trying to force her religion on me. What about a child's freedom from persecution, which is what "gay cure therapy" really is? What about the child's right to freedoms of speech & expression? Do those magically appear on his or her 18th birthday? I don't think so, they are developed over time and should be nurtured by the parents, not trampled by the parents' own viewpoints.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    But being gay is not just about having sex. It's not an addiction to having homosexual sex. I can be straight and not be addicted to sex. I can watch porn without having a porn addiction. You can be gay and be celibate and you can be gay and have a normal healthy sex life.
    And you can be gay and change your mind. As this man did.

    To Ricky with love:*You can resist
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    And you can be gay and change your mind. As this man did.

    To Ricky with love*You can resist
    And I know about a dozen gay men who would tell you that that one man is wrong, that they *did* want to change their mind and couldn't. Because it's not about what they want to be, it's who they are. Many of them are very religious people who believe this is how God made them. Funny how you all worship the same God but think he makes people in different ways.
    David Letterman is retiring. Such great memories of watching him over the past thirty-two years!

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