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Thread: Gosnell Trial Media Blackout (abortion ment.)

  1. #111
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    Im surprised you aren't lower. Since the gays don't need abortions
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  2. #112
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    I blame all the out of state girls who come here for college and haven't been taught about contraception .
    Last edited by Jessica80; 04-30-2013 at 08:58 PM.
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  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    What I am talking about is that every single person in this thread knows full well that you are lying through your teeth when you say you want funding for abortions to be safe. You want abortions to be IMPOSSIBLE. You don't care about mothers safety and its that line of thought that made this atrocity possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    This is not true.

    You can have the position that abortion is wrong and should be illegal, and still think that if they are going to have them as legal, then at least they should have the same medical standards as any other health facility. If a normal health clinic has laws that make it so that the doors need to be wide enough for a stretcher to get through, and abortion clinic should not be exempt from those laws.
    Exactly. Just because I don't want it to be legal doesn't mean I want women to die for making a bad choice.
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  4. #114
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Exactly. Just because I don't want it to be legal doesn't mean I want women to die for making a bad choice.
    Gloria, I believe in your compassion, I really do, but let's look at it from a very objective point of view: If you endorse the abortion laws passed by states like Alabama then you must realize that a woman dying in an unlicensed, dirty, unregulated abortion clinic charging hundreds of dollars (and more, if you're further along) is a very real scenario. Women denied the same clean, humane, sterile and medically professional 'experience' (for lack of a better term) just because they're poor or uneducated or way too young or whatever is so very, very wrong.

  5. #115
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    But Alyssa & Gloria, that is EXACTLY what it is going to mean if you succeed in outlawing abortion. It's what happened in the past, it's what is happening in other countries, and it's what is happening in the states that are putting the most restrictions on abortions here in the U.S. like in Philadelphia with this monster.

    Women who don't want to be pregnant will do anything to not be pregnant and all of your preaching and adoption talk and promises of support that aren't really true don't mean a thing. When you have a parasite in your body that you want to be rid of, you will find a way to be rid of it, legal or not, safe or not. And when abortion is not legal or safe or accessible, women die. That is a fact that has been true for hundreds of years, and it will continue to be true for the next hundreds of years. Here are some statistics that are easily verifiable if you do a simple search.
    1. The year after abortion was legalized in New York State, the maternal-mortality rate there dropped by 45 percent.
    2. Countries that have the most liberal abortion policies have the lowest abortion rates.
    3. Countries with the most ab
    ortion restrictions have the highest rates of abortion-related deaths.
    Do we really want the U.S. to be a country where poor women are dying because they don't want to have a baby? REALLY????
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  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Gloria, I believe in your compassion, I really do, but let's look at it from a very objective point of view: If you endorse the abortion laws passed by states like Alabama then you must realize that a woman dying in an unlicensed, dirty, unregulated abortion clinic charging hundreds of dollars (and more, if you're further along) is a very real scenario. Women denied the same clean, humane, sterile and medically professional 'experience' (for lack of a better term) just because they're poor or uneducated or way too young or whatever is so very, very wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    But Alyssa & Gloria, that is EXACTLY what it is going to mean if you succeed in outlawing abortion. It's what happened in the past, it's what is happening in other countries, and it's what is happening in the states that are putting the most restrictions on abortions here in the U.S. like in Philadelphia with this monster.
    No I don't believe that at all. I think that very few women would get abortions if they were not legal or if they were restricted to very early in the pregnancy. Those old statistics they use to compare abortion before it was legal were just plain wrong to begin with. And the fact is that women still die today from legal abortions.

    On July 5, Sen. Boxer claimed that overturning Roe v. Wade would cost the lives of more than 5,000 pregnant women a year. That might have been true before the invention of penicillin and the birth control pill, but it's not true now. The best evidence indicates that the annual deaths from illegal abortions would number in the hundreds, not thousands.

    Boxer made the claim to support her position that the repeal of Roe would be the sort of "extraordinary circumstance" that could justify use of the filibuster to stop the confirmation of a nominee to the Supreme Court. The Associated Press quoted her this way:


    Boxer: It means a minimum of 5,000 women a year will die. So all options are on the table.

    But Boxer was just wrong. The figure comes from a 1936 study by Dr. Frederick Taussig who estimated that abortion claimed the lives of 5,000 to 10,000 women a year. It is impossible to know if his figures are accurate, given that no reliable records exist on the total number of illegal abortions that occurred, much less the number of deaths. Taussig extrapolated the data from trends in New York City and Germany.

    His estimate is at least plausible. Women had few means to prevent unwanted pregnancies, and illegal abortions were often performed in less than sanitary settings. Furthermore, penicillin wasn't in use until World War II, and not widely available to the civilian population until after the war ended in 1945. And Enovid, the first oral contraceptive, wasn't available until 1957. But whether Taussig's estimate was accurate or not, the conditions of the 1930's don't apply today.

    From the 1940s through the 1960s, in fact, the best available evidence shows a dramatic decline in abortion-related deaths occurring even before the first states liberalized abortion laws in 1967. The Journal of the American Medical Association quotes official estimates from the National Center for Health Statistics showing an 89 percent decrease in abortion-related deaths by 1966. That is based on counting the number of death certificates that listed complications from abortion as the cause of death. The numbers reported for any given year are assuredly low since doctors could easily misstate the cause of death to protect the family. Still, these are the only figures that allow comparisons over time. There's no reason to think that the rate of under-reporting would vary from one year to another, and so little reason to doubt that a steep downward trend took place long before Roe was decided.

    Christopher Tietze, one of the leading experts on abortion trends, wrote in 1969 that it was plausible that 5,000 women a year died from abortion in the 1930s, but concluded that it cannot be anywhere near the true rate now.? He said that, although the 235 formally listed on death certificates in 1965 was too low, ?in all likelihood it (the actual number) was under 1,000." An abortion statistics expert at the Guttmacher Institute, Stanley Henshaw, is studying abortion rates during the first part of the century. Though his data collection is unfinished, Henshaw concurred that Tietze?s estimate of fewer than 1,000 deaths is ?reasonable.?

    Boxer would have been correct to say that some increase in deaths of pregnant women would result should abortions be made illegal. But the number is much lower than she claimed. In 1972, the last year before Roe v. Wade legalized abortion nationwide, CDC counted only 39 deaths from illegal abortions based on surveys of health care providers, medical examiners' reports, state and national records, and news reports. However, Henshaw said it?s difficult to quantify the number of deaths that could result today if Roe were overturned. For one thing, it is not clear how many states would actually make abortions illegal again. And Henshaw noted it is unlikely that the numbers of deaths would be as high as they were before 1973 due to medical advances and emergency services available today. In any case, Boxer's 5,000 figure was nearly 70 years out of date, and clearly wrong.
    FactCheck.org: Abortion Distortions
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  7. #117
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    The thing that confuses the heck out of me is why conservatives are working so very hard to ensure that its poor women who are the ones who are losing access to abortion. For the wealthy abortion is a breeze to get, generally covered by insurance, even. Yet its the poor who are losing funding, or losing access, or who have to drive hundreds of miles to even try to get one (and with gas prices so high even the cost of getting TO the clinic could be prohibitive)........and then of course we wonder why more people are needing foodstamps or WIC or whatever. Well, gee whiz, could it be because they have more mouths to feed? Could it be because they can't afford daycare so they can't work? Could it be because they had to drop out of school to take care of the kid so they have no education so they are now on the public dole?

    You don't want to let them abort the baby, but you sure don't want to help them raise it, either. Its pretty cruel.
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  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    and then of course we wonder why more people are needing foodstamps or WIC or whatever. Well, gee whiz, could it be because they have more mouths to feed? Could it be because they can't afford daycare so they can't work? Could it be because they had to drop out of school to take care of the kid so they have no education so they are now on the public dole?

    You don't want to let them abort the baby, but you sure don't want to help them raise it, either. Its pretty cruel.
    You are wrong. No one is saying we don't want to help these people. We are saying we don't think it is the job of the FEDERAL government. Why should we send our money to the federal government so they can make up a bunch of rules dole it out and send it back to the state or local communities who know what people need and should be handling it in the first place, minus all the extra administrative costs involved. That is how waste and fraud happens. There are plenty of charities who would step up and fill the need if we were able to keep more of our own money and give it to those who need it ourselves without all the bureaucracy.

    In fact here is proof that if the federal government cuts back the local communities step up.
    Americans find ways to soften sequester; saving tourist seasons, programs for needy | Fox News
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  9. #119
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    OK, so great, you and your church are going to help raise the baby that I don't want to have. (I actually don't believe this to be true but for the sake of debate I will.) That doesn't help when I have to cut my hours at work due to a pregnancy I don't want to be carrying and it doesn't help when I can't do my job due to pregnancy. Many states don't provide income when a mom is out on maternity leave, and even those that do don't cover 100%. So I'm losing money to have a baby that I don't want. And that doesn't help restore my body and mind after nine months of a pregnancy that I don't want to be carrying and after a c-section. I was in severe pain for weeks and I suffered PTSD for months after Tiven's birth and the only thing that got me through was that I loved her from the moment of conception & I wanted her in my life and I wanted to be her mom. I'd have probably killed myself rather than go through that for someone else's kid or for a kid I didn't want. Are you & your church going to pay for my therapy or compensate me for my pain & suffering? Plastic surgery to get rid of the scar on my belly that reminds me of what I went through for a baby I didn't want to have in the first place? Why on earth do you want to force motherhood on people who don't want it??? You want to have kids, have them. You want to adopt, adopt. You don't want to have an abortion, don't have one. No one if forcing any of you to do any of those but you want to force others to do them. ****ing bunch of hypocrites.
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  10. #120
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    I'm sorry that I just can't compare the murder of a child to the inconvenience you may suffer by being pregnant. There are thousands of people who would give anything to adopt a baby.
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