Grandmother has custody *Warning* Sever child abuse mentioned

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wlillie's picture
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Grandmother has custody *Warning* Sever child abuse mentioned

Texas mom gets 99 years for gluing toddler to wall, beating her – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

Do you think giving custody of 5 severely abused and confused children to a grandmother is in their best interest when said grandmother asked the judge to let their abuser serve probation instead of a jail sentence?

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I don't really know how I feel. The kids are probably close to their grandmother and probably feel safest there. Part of me still thinks that this is her daughter and of course she doesn't want her to go to jail and the other part of me thinks even so that as a mom I would have let them take her.

5 kids by 23....wow.

And my NON PC side of my brain wishes this is a case where we could sterilize someone.

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I watched the cnn video yesterday and could not bear it. soooooooo awful!

The grandmother was also beaten by her daughter, so I think that could possibly play a role in her protection of her daughter, protecting an abuser. If nothing else few mothers want their kids in jail. I think they all probably need a lot of long term therapy. If the gm does not seem harmful and rational enough then with the gm is probably a good place, esp if no other close relatives are able or qualified. Going separate ways in foster homes as they are is a terrible option.

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i actually was thinking this exact same thing. it doesnt' sound like the kids are going to be too much better off...

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Separate foster homes are not an option either and their are few foster homes that could take all 5. I was separated from my siblings, my 2 sisters with in one foster home, my brother in another and I was in a third. My brother and I were adopted by different families and my bio-mother parented my two sisters. My adoption was finalized when I was 5.5 years old. I maintained memories of my siblings until we were reunited when I was 26. It is horrible to remember you have siblings but not to know anything about them.

The grandmother sounds like she loves the children and is trying to do the best for them.

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I shouldn't have read that article. I was warned. But now I can't stop crying.

Anyway, I agree with myyams that assuming the grandma is not abusive and rational, they will probably be better off with her than bouncing around in foster care, but that they all need some serious therapy (grandmother included.)

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My first thought is, why the hell are they giving those kids to the grandmother who clearly wasn't able to properly parent her own daughter who ended up as an abusive single mother to five children by the age of 23? But then again, what's done is done by both mothers and it's time to start healing and moving on. As others have said, I'm going to assume that the grandmother is a stable loving person and I'd rather see those kids stay together than separated in foster care. And I'd like to see them all get counseling, including the grandmother.

And let's talk about this prison term. Do you think the judge overstepped bounds on this one? This mom got more time than Sandusky and she got more time than people who have killed multiple people. It's obviously going to be appealled. It seems to me that this mom should have had a lot more help than she ever got, and I'm appalled that she was able to slip through so many cracks in our social safety net system to get to the point of gluing her kid's hands to the wall. I think she should have gotten a short prison sentence with a very long period of supervised parole. And where are all the fathers? Should they be held accountable in some way? Maybe if she had more support money, she wouldn't have been so stressed out, or maybe if they had each taken their kids sometimes, she would have gotten a much-needed break, and this wouldn't have happened.

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I definitely agree with this. When I worked in Social Work this is what I saw all the time at various levels. Finding the father(s) was always very difficult. What would ideally happen is after her term (if it were less of one!!), she'd be offered some services to try to help her possibly work toward regaining custody; though likely it'd take a long time. Reintegrating back into society after jail is difficult for anyone. I would HOPE that during her time in jail she would be able to work toward gaining some education. I've not read enough in detail to know what kind of education she has, but I bet she doesn't even have a GED or HS diploma. So that would be the first step. A lot of times the services we offered before removing children from abusive homes (depending on the degree and type) was to get lots of services to the family. Most of the time these stresses were due to financial strain, not an excuse but just a correlation. So our department would try to help with that in some way. In this case, this mother severely fell through the cracks. Someone should have repeatedly reported concerns. I don't know if that happened (I didn't read too much, just watched a few seconds of the vid). Has this woman even had a mental health check by a Psychiatrist? I mean, maybe she has some mental illness or health condition. She has a life long issue with anger and poor behavioral patters, clearly. It's a sad, sad case for these kids, so very heartbreaking. I can't believe someone would even think to glue a kid to he wall. Like where would that idea be born from? I can't understand.

I do think the vast differences between sentences is appalling, and I agree our judicial system is flawed.

"Spacers" wrote:

My first thought is, why the hell are they giving those kids to the grandmother who clearly wasn't able to properly parent her own daughter who ended up as an abusive single mother to five children by the age of 23? But then again, what's done is done by both mothers and it's time to start healing and moving on. As others have said, I'm going to assume that the grandmother is a stable loving person and I'd rather see those kids stay together than separated in foster care. And I'd like to see them all get counseling, including the grandmother.

And let's talk about this prison term. Do you think the judge overstepped bounds on this one? This mom got more time than Sandusky and she got more time than people who have killed multiple people. It's obviously going to be appealled. It seems to me that this mom should have had a lot more help than she ever got, and I'm appalled that she was able to slip through so many cracks in our social safety net system to get to the point of gluing her kid's hands to the wall. I think she should have gotten a short prison sentence with a very long period of supervised parole. And where are all the fathers? Should they be held accountable in some way? Maybe if she had more support money, she wouldn't have been so stressed out, or maybe if they had each taken their kids sometimes, she would have gotten a much-needed break, and this wouldn't have happened.

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I am thinking I am not going to read the article. It does sound heartbreaking.

"mom2robbie" wrote:

Separate foster homes are not an option either and their are few foster homes that could take all 5. I was separated from my siblings, my 2 sisters with in one foster home, my brother in another and I was in a third. My brother and I were adopted by different families and my bio-mother parented my two sisters. My adoption was finalized when I was 5.5 years old. I maintained memories of my siblings until we were reunited when I was 26. It is horrible to remember you have siblings but not to know anything about them.

The grandmother sounds like she loves the children and is trying to do the best for them.

:bigarmhug: Sorry that you had to go through that.

I do agree that finding foster care for 5 children would be difficult.

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I think Sandusky didn't get a long enough prison term; hers is fine. I think it's insane to try to pretend like this woman is ever going to be OK. If you are evil enough to glue your children to the wall, then no amount of money or help from the fathers is going to keep you from doing it. Apparently her mother was involved in helping with the kids so if she needed a break, she should have taken one.

I think if I was that kind of person that I'd want my kids to go into foster care instead of the home that raised me. Even if it meant being separated from my siblings. That 23 year old didn't just wake up one day with 5 kids and letting the grandmother raise them just means the cycle will continue.

"Elizabeth Escalona wasn't sorry for what she did to 2-year-old Jocelyn. Elizabeth Escalona felt sorry for herself," Price said. "Those tears on the stand were for her and not for the toddler she tortured."

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The comparison to Sandusky doesn't make sense...with the prison term he got, he will die in prison. Any extra 'hundred' years or whatever would be totally symbolic in nature. The job of our prison system is to protect society (and to rehabilitate, but i don't think that applies in this situation), and this sentence accomplishes that. The job of our prison system is not to hand out symbolic excessive prison sentences to make society artificially feel better when in fact it does nothing.

As for this woman, i agree with those who say that as long as the grandmother is stable and not abusive it is better to keep them together than to put them through the foster system separately. Her sentence? If it seems extra excessive compared to other child abusers, i guess it doesn't make sense...but i must say my heart isn't bleeding for her or anything.

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"wlillie" wrote:

I think Sandusky didn't get a long enough prison term; hers is fine. I think it's insane to try to pretend like this woman is ever going to be OK. If you are evil enough to glue your children to the wall, then no amount of money or help from the fathers is going to keep you from doing it. Apparently her mother was involved in helping with the kids so if she needed a break, she should have taken one.

I think if I was that kind of person that I'd want my kids to go into foster care instead of the home that raised me. Even if it meant being separated from my siblings. That 23 year old didn't just wake up one day with 5 kids and letting the grandmother raise them just means the cycle will continue.

"Elizabeth Escalona wasn't sorry for what she did to 2-year-old Jocelyn. Elizabeth Escalona felt sorry for herself," Price said. "Those tears on the stand were for her and not for the toddler she tortured."

I don't know Lillie. Like, if they can show that the grandma is unfit in some way, then I would agree that she shouldn't have the kids. But if there isn't any evidence that the grandma beat the mom, or neglected her, or emotionally abused her, or anything like that, I think it's hard to say that just because the mom turned out to be a bad apple, the grandmother is unfit. I always think about my SIL - her parents are totally loving and awesome and my SIL is totally awesome; high achieving (she already has several degrees and a good job in her field) smart, nice, funny, loving - and her brother is a drug addict who is in and out of jail. I know some people will argue that her parents "failed" in parenting his particular personality type or whatever, but you can't look at them and see any obvious flaws like abuse or neglect. I'm sure they were imperfect, as are we all, but I also believe they probably did the best they could with what they knew, as do most of us, and their son still turned out pretty messed up. What I'm saying is, I don't think that it necessarily takes a terrible parent to raise a messed up kid.

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I agree with Alissa. I don't think someone who performs acts like these is necessarily reflective of bad parenting. Sometimes people like this just exist. It can definitely be from their childhood/background but if there is no known concern about grandma (abuse/neglect) this is the best option for them I think (now that I've had time to really think this through)

Plus, social services will follow them and hopefully if there are any signs they will be noticed ASAP.

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This happened in the Dallas area so has been in the news a lot. Given the fact that the little girl would have died if the Grandmother hadn't rescued her and taken her to the hospital, I don't think 99 years is excessive. The mother didn't even take her to the hospital or call 911 after abusing her to the point of death, so the only reason she doesn't have a murder charge is because the Grandmother stepped in. I see no reason for the Grandmother to not get custody as she did nothing wrong. I'm sure she loves those kids and they don't need any more trauma.

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Why didn't she take those kids away if she knew this was going on? She did do something wrong. You don't have to be a genius to realize this wasn't a one time thing and if my Mother let me abuse my kids like that without doing something about it, I wouldn't want her to have them either.

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"wlillie" wrote:

Why didn't she take those kids away if she knew this was going on? She did do something wrong. You don't have to be a genius to realize this wasn't a one time thing and if my Mother let me abuse my kids like that without doing something about it, I wouldn't want her to have them either.

Possibly because legally she couldn't just "take the kids away?" I mean, you can certainly argue that it might have been better for the kids in the short term if she kidnapped them or something, but then they'd be in the situation of having a grandma in jail as well as a mom in jail. My thought is, I don't know enough about the back ground to make a judgement. The article said that the mom had been investigated by CPS before - maybe that was the grandma's doing. Maybe the mom's behavior escalated rather rapidly and the grandma wasn't totally aware of what was happening. Maybe the grandma knew and just did nothing; I don't know well enough to say that the grandma "did nothing" because I don't know what she knew or what she did. I do know that people who don't have custody of children can't just take them away without legal consequences.