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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    Are you serious? It makes no sense to you to eliminate guns that can create massacres? If we cant get the guns off the streets we can fet the bullets out of the stores. We can get the clips out of the stores. We can start giving out penalties that will make them wish they were never born. We can take steps to reduce the chances of harm against others. What can you do with pot, blow smoke in someone's face? I am not necessarily for lots of things, but the ability to do this much harm should be illegal....period.
    I am not arguing that guns should be in school, I do not think they should be. I am not arguing that there should not be strict rules on guns, I think there should be. I am arguing that the blanket removal of all guns from law abiding citizens is unconstitutional.

    I was just pointing out that it does not make sense that millions of abortions would be allowed each year on the basis that "Well they will do it anyway"when you have a zero tolerance of guns on the off chance that a mentally unstable person will use it in the wrong way. Those are two very contradicting polices.

    Yes, schools and other public places need to up their security, but the answer is neither arming the teachers or banning all guns.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Do you think there is no chance of there ever being another Civil War?
    Honestly it isn't something that I have thought about. I wasn't aware that there were issues brewing to the point of sparking a civil war in the near future. I don't understand the need to stockpile weapons against a war that isn't anywhere in the future or even possibility. Why prepare for a war that may never happen?

    I don't get it. But up here we fight out battles with politics and referendums.
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    Try to imagine things from the point of view that a baby is a baby before it is born. That it is just as devastating when an unborn baby dies as when a little boy or girl dies. Would you not grieve just as hard as you have this week for the millions of babies that die every year? I understand that not everyone believe an unborn baby is a real live baby, but try to put yourself into the shoes as someone who does. I was trying to point out that either the excuse that people will do it anyway so we need to make it safe holds water or it doesn't. If you have to get a licence to buy a gun, the government knows who has a gun. Someone who really wants on will get one, one way or the other. If it legal, the government will know who was inquiring about buying a gun, can do a psyche evaluation, and can monitor the use of that gun. If it is bought off the street or from Mexico, the government has no idea even of its existence.

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    Honestly it isn't something that I have thought about. I wasn't aware that there were issues brewing to the point of sparking a civil war in the near future. I don't understand the need to stockpile weapons against a war that isn't anywhere in the future or even possibility. Why prepare for a war that may never happen?

    I don't get it. But up here we fight out battles with politics and referendums.
    If you could have read my Facebook wall the day after the presidential election, you would have thought it was imitate. (That is not to say that it is). Think of the recent debate about certain States wanting to succeed. Understand that the people who want that are very much in the Minority, but they do exist.

    ~Bonita~

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I am not arguing that guns should be in school, I do not think they should be. I am not arguing that there should not be strict rules on guns, I think there should be. I am arguing that the blanket removal of all guns from law abiding citizens is unconstitutional.

    I was just pointing out that it does not make sense that millions of abortions would be allowed each year on the basis that "Well they will do it anyway"when you have a zero tolerance of guns on the off chance that a mentally unstable person will use it in the wrong way. Those are two very contradicting polices.

    Yes, schools and other public places need to up their security, but the answer is neither arming the teachers or banning all guns.
    There was no logic in the facebook comment just like there is no logic in the, "they are going to do it anyway" not at least in my thinking. That is the least kind of thinking I am in line with.

    We can start somewhere in at least gaining control over these gun problems. The other day a man in a mall parking lot fired like 50 or 100 bullets in the air, (I forgot how many) and I remember thinking why should anyone have a gun that is that easy to fire that many bullets.

    If we had taken Columbine seriously in 1999, we might have made some progress towards saving lives like these babies.

    I am also not down with the paranoid thinking of we need to stockpile bullets, guns, and all sorts of crazy crp in case one day we have a civil war or we are invaded. I dont live my life in that dark way. And I certainly will not train my kids to be little militia men - just in case. It is just so bizarre that I camnot even express the radical and bizarre idea that that is, in its due.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Try to imagine things from the point of view that a baby is a baby before it is born. That it is just as devastating when an unborn baby dies as when a little boy or girl dies. Would you not grieve just as hard as you have this week for the millions of babies that die every year? I understand that not everyone believe an unborn baby is a real live baby, but try to put yourself into the shoes as someone who does. I was trying to point out that either the excuse that people will do it anyway so we need to make it safe holds water or it doesn't. If you have to get a licence to buy a gun, the government knows who has a gun. Someone who really wants on will get one, one way or the other. If it legal, the government will know who was inquiring about buying a gun, can do a psyche evaluation, and can monitor the use of that gun. If it is bought off the street or from Mexico, the government has no idea even of its existence.
    It is just not related. If youndecide something is within your religious beliefs or plain thinking, that is up to you - just do not go around trying to abort others' babies. We as a nation agree on one thing - what happened and has been allowed to continue to happen is not acceptable. We have to focus on this issue and not allow irrelevant, weak stands to be inappropriately displaced.
    Aisha

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I wanted to point out an irony that just struck me while reading something on Facebook. Abortion is legal because people will do it anyway and this way you can make it safe and regulate it.
    That's not why it is legal.

    Smoking and drinking are legal as is the push for pot because people will do it anyway, and that this way it can be made safe and regulated.
    That's not why they are legal. But sure I'll go with that, smoking, drinking, and pot are legal because people will do it anyway. Nonetheless, we have quite a few restrictions on drinking and smoking. You can't smoke on planes, indoors, within a certain distance from an entrance. You can't be served alcohol after 2 AM, or on Sunday, or in certain counties.

    Why do you think banning all guns will make guns go away?
    The difference between guns and any of the other things you mentioned is manufacturing. We can make our own alcohol, grow our own weed, and well, let's not go there with abortion.

    With guns, you can't just decide you want to make a gun. It takes a whole lot more than that.


    ETA - A ton more life is lost through Abortion, Drunk Driving, and accidental overdose than by gun accidents.
    How about gun deaths that aren't accidents? How are you counting abortion in the numbers?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    It is just not related. If youndecide something is within your religious beliefs or plain thinking, that is up to you - just do not go around trying to abort others' babies. We as a nation agree on one thing - what happened and has been allowed to continue to happen is not acceptable. We have to focus on this issue and not allow irrelevant, weak stands to be inappropriately displaced.
    It do not think that it is irrelevant, but I will wait to respond until I have had some sleep. I already made the mistake of posting something unkind today while I was tired.
    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    That's not why it is legal.

    That's not why they are legal. But sure I'll go with that, smoking, drinking, and pot are legal because people will do it anyway. Nonetheless, we have quite a few restrictions on drinking and smoking. You can't smoke on planes, indoors, within a certain distance from an entrance. You can't be served alcohol after 2 AM, or on Sunday, or in certain counties.
    It is the excuse that some on this board have given as to why abortion should be legal.

    I am not in opposition to making regulations on guns, just on banning them all together.

    ~Bonita~

  9. #109
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    It's not the only reason abortion is legal...not that abortion and gun control are really comparable at least to me. I will use that keeping abortion a safe medical procedure is in our society's best interest yes. I do not feel the need for assault weapons are necessary for our health and safety.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    The gunman did obtain the weapons illegally. How? A "responsible" gun owner allowed someone whom she knew to have a history of mental health issues access to her weapons.

    By the time students are in middle school, many could easily over-power their teachers. All it would take is one student to jump a gun-carrying teacher in the parking lot and, well, I don't even want to think about it. Or a teacher genuinely fears for his/her safety and then claims self-defense? What next?

    One of my friends posted on facebook the quote that is going around about one failed shoe bomb attempt and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Yet there have been 31 school shootings since Columbine.

    No one would argue that we have the right to wear shoes. Many are willing to go along with that precaution in the name of the greater good so taking them off isn't unreasonable. Yet for some reason, placing limits on guns for the greater good is violating my rights. What about others who have the right to be safe?

    If every adult over the age of 18/21 was issued a weapon, how exactly would we overthrow the government? In WWII we bombed Japan. Face it, no matter what weapons or ammo we have legal access to, we aren't going to win. I actually find the argument that we must be able to overthrow the government if necessary a bit odd. We will defend a cop's or a neighborhood watchman's right to shoot to kill because he felt threatened without second-guessing their judgment. If a cop killed someone, that person must have deserved it. We won't question our government on the one hand but fantasize about needing to overthrow it on the other hand?
    1- You assume he wouldn't have gotten them another way. (course it was dumb on her part, but I would not blame her for his choice)
    2- If you cc you are trained.. And I do think we should be able to choose.
    3- Not everyone is ok with just taking off our shoes.. did you forget the HUGE stink people threw, are still throwing about airport security? OF course they argued they had the right to wear shoes... But that wasn't an amendment was it?
    4- It is the 2nd amendment.. I didn't write it. Sorry you have a problem with it. And again it isn't an either or question.. Who isn't questioning the government? BOTH sides of every issue I see doing that!
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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