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  1. #111
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    It's not the only reason abortion is legal...not that abortion and gun control are really comparable at least to me. I will use that keeping abortion a safe medical procedure is in our society's best interest yes. I do not feel the need for assault weapons are necessary for our health and safety.
    oooh - I do not think murdering a child is necessary for health and safety. And do think being able to protect my family is necessary for their health and safety. The issue isn't assault weapons, tanks or bombs or hydrogen .. It is people and their willingness to do evil, whether it be a gun, a car, a knife or a bottle of antifreeze.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  2. #112
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Seriously? I don't doubt they weren't intelligent but I find it hard to believe they could foresee and predict the technological advances we have had in the past 200+ years.
    You are leaving out the bulk of my argument.. IT DOESN'T MATTER... the amendment calls for a populous to be allowed to weaponize a militia if they choose to. This in general would allow the common man to own just as much weaponry as the government.. regardless of the TYPE of weapons they did not want Britian for example to come in, or evil to destroy the Union.
    And I am not saying they would know EXACTLY what we would have.. I said what I ment that they knew weaponry would get more and more advanced. Of course they did.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  3. #113
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    Okay....safe abortions is for the safety of the woman who I am going to protect.

    Being able to have a "well regulated militia" is a HECK of a lot different than the crap we have going on now.

    I seriously cannot argue with people who feel that owning in gun or guns in the random chance we need to fight in a civil war is more important than our immediate and our children's immediate safety. It boggles me.

    I'm also okay with amending the Constitution for this. But whatever.

  4. #114
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Okay....safe abortions is for the safety of the woman who I am going to protect.

    Being able to have a "well regulated militia" is a HECK of a lot different than the crap we have going on now.

    I seriously cannot argue with people who feel that owning in gun or guns in the random chance we need to fight in a civil war is more important than our immediate and our children's immediate safety. It boggles me.

    I'm also okay with amending the Constitution for this. But whatever.
    Do you really understand how many abortions are medically necessary for the woman to live?
    Again it is the 2nd amendment get over your boggleness... yes I made up that word just for you

  5. #115
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I know I already swore off this debate, but I just wanted to tell you what my DH said when I asked him about arming teachers (he is a high school English teacher.) I'm paraphrasing, but basically he said that the type of person who is attracted to teaching is different from the type of person who wants to carry a gun for a living. If you make carrying a gun a requirement for teachers, you are going to attract a different type of person, and that may not be the type of person you want teaching kids. Not because they are bad people, but because they have a different temperment. He also said that the amount of training and maintenance that you would need to be able to consistently react under pressure and hit moving targets would be similar to that of a police officer, and you would need to think about paying teachers for that extra training and maintenance, as well as how much time would be spent gaining and maintaining those skills vs gaining and maintaining the skills they use for teaching. He also said that he thinks that if a teacher is trying to hit a moving target (like an attacker) and hits a student instead, that is worse in his opinion, because the teachers are responsible for the kids, and having a teacher hurt one (albeit unintentionally) is worse. Finally, I asked him if he would want to carry a gun himself. He says no.

    So, some insight from a guy who became a teacher in Littleton in a post-Columbine world. Possibly skewed because, like me, he is not "a gun person."
    I think this is skewed or a regional thing. My Dh is a teacher (so am I) and we both have CC license (neither of us carry, but DH's uncle is a trainer for the FBI and he made us get the license) I would guess that most, if not all of the teachers at DH's school all own guns. He does teach in a very rural area, most guns around her are for hunting.
    I believe it is a very big assumption that you would attract a different kind of person if teachers were allowed to carry. I think teaching attracts people that love kids, and would lay down their live for them.
    Lisa
    Molly, Morgan, Mia and Carson

  6. #116
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    Oh and I am very undecided on whether this could be a good thing. I dont love the idea of guns in schools. That being said, if a gunmen entered my kids school I would be pretty happy if he could be stopped before he got to any of the kids.
    Lisa
    Molly, Morgan, Mia and Carson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    You are leaving out the bulk of my argument.. IT DOESN'T MATTER... the amendment calls for a populous to be allowed to weaponize a militia if they choose to. This in general would allow the common man to own just as much weaponry as the government.. regardless of the TYPE of weapons they did not want Britian for example to come in, or evil to destroy the Union.
    And I am not saying they would know EXACTLY what we would have.. I said what I ment that they knew weaponry would get more and more advanced. Of course they did.
    I'm sorry, are you truly arguing that your ability to freely buy assault rifles will prepare you for war with the US Government? My husband has his TS clearance and sells directly to the USAF and Special Ops. The sophistication and precision of our military is astounding. The weaponry he sees at the shows he attends, and the sophistication of our flight lines and comm centers is dizzying. Your handful of personal assault rifles won't do much when an unmanned drone drops a bomb down your chimney from 15,000 feet. That is simply crazy talk!

    And again, Bonita, if you are in favor of stockpiling weapons in case of a civil war, well, you sound like the Waco people. That is just crazy talk.

    And for you who are comparing the lives of these murdered children to aborted embryos, these children with bedrooms and lives and passions and interests who are being laid to rest this week is horribly cruel, in my opinion. For you to tell a mother who lived with her child for 6 or 7 years, who had picked out their presents, who decorated their bedroom and whatnot, that their loss of their child is the SAME as the millions of "children" being lost to abortion each year is simply cruel in a calculated and heartless way. It makes me shake to think of it. Were I burying my CHILDS BODY, my baby whose life was ripped away from me by some madman, and someone compared my loss to someone choosing to abort their pregnancy, there would not be enough tranquilizers to get me off of the ledge. I really think that you should rethink that argument, very, very carefully.

    I have many friends who had abortions and not one regrets it. THey made that choice for an important reason ~ be it to finish school, because the partner was not a good one, because they were sick with an eating disorder at the time etc etc etc. They don't regret their choice. I DARE you to find one mother who had her child murdered who says that they don't regret it or who lives one DAY wishing that they could not change what happened.

    If you want to own a handgun, great! Want to own a hunting rifle? Great! Want to own an assault rifle? Sorry. No longer. These guns capable of shooting hundreds of rounds/minute? These clips holding huge quantities of bullets have no place in normal society. They are used for nothing good. Normal people see that.
    fuchsiasky and Jessica80 like this.

  8. #118
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Can i ask what people are defining as an assault rifle?

    And are people aware that there are hunting rifles that are semi-automatic? My husband has one. And it makes a big difference when hunting.

    I am not against tighter gun control and I would even consider a ban on certain types of weapons. But I think we should get more specific.

    ETA: And this isn't a counterpoint to anyone's argument....I am bringing the question up because they are common points when discussing the issue. We should be specific about what we are banning and some of these terms are not universally defined. (And they were two separate questions, not one addressing the same thing)
    Last edited by KimPossible; 12-19-2012 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    I think this is skewed or a regional thing. My Dh is a teacher (so am I) and we both have CC license (neither of us carry, but DH's uncle is a trainer for the FBI and he made us get the license) I would guess that most, if not all of the teachers at DH's school all own guns. He does teach in a very rural area, most guns around her are for hunting.
    I believe it is a very big assumption that you would attract a different kind of person if teachers were allowed to carry. I think teaching attracts people that love kids, and would lay down their live for them.
    I don't think his point was that "teachers never own guns" but that teachers today don't go into teaching to be armed body guards. It's a different mentality to go into teaching knowing that you will have to be prepared to possibly take someone's life on the job than it is to go into teaching because you love literature and kids. I don't think he meant that no teachers would ever voluntarily own or carry a gun in their private life, but that it takes a certain kind of person (more of a police officer personality) to want to do armed protection as part of their job. Again, not that the "police officer" type of person is a bad type of person, but they may also not be the best suited to be a teacher (just like a literature and kid loving teacher type might not be the best suited to be a police officer.)
    AkMomma07 likes this.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    If you want to own a handgun, great! Want to own a hunting rifle? Great! Want to own an assault rifle? Sorry. No longer. These guns capable of shooting hundreds of rounds/minute? These clips holding huge quantities of bullets have no place in normal society. They are used for nothing good. Normal people see that.
    I would replace handgun with revolver (my understanding is that most handguns are also semi-auto and capable of firing mass quantities of bullets very quickly.) But other than that, I agree with this. My stance is not that we need to do away with all guns. My stance is that we need to figure out a strategy to get rid of the type of guns that can fire so many bullets so quickly and be reloaded so quickly, so that a gunman can fire hundreds of bullets in 10 minutes as Adam Lanza did, as James Holmes did, as is becoming the norm in these massacres. I think we can come to a compromise between "no guns" and a free for all. Have your revolvers, have your hunting rifles. I do not believe that you need more than that for either home protection or hunting, and if you do need more than that for protection, let's work on the reasons WHY our country is so unsafe instead of just piling on more guns. (Including, yes, let's definitely talk about mental health!)

    I also find the comparison between a school massacre and abortion to be a very calculated political talking point, and frankly repugnant. Losing a child that you have known and loved and taken care of for 6 years simply cannot be compared with choosing to end a pregnancy. They are not the same thing. Can you imagine if I went up to the mother of one of these slain children and said "I know what you're going through; I've had two first trimester miscarriages" as if they were the same level of tragedy? And I didn't even choose to lose my pregnancies, and it's still nowhere near the same. Just...no.
    Potter75, AkMomma07 and fuchsiasky like this.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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