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  1. #151
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I'm sorry, are you truly arguing that your ability to freely buy assault rifles will prepare you for war with the US Government? My husband has his TS clearance and sells directly to the USAF and Special Ops. The sophistication and precision of our military is astounding. The weaponry he sees at the shows he attends, and the sophistication of our flight lines and comm centers is dizzying. Your handful of personal assault rifles won't do much when an unmanned drone drops a bomb down your chimney from 15,000 feet. That is simply crazy talk!

    And again, Bonita, if you are in favor of stockpiling weapons in case of a civil war, well, you sound like the Waco people. That is just crazy talk.

    And for you who are comparing the lives of these murdered children to aborted embryos, these children with bedrooms and lives and passions and interests who are being laid to rest this week is horribly cruel, in my opinion. For you to tell a mother who lived with her child for 6 or 7 years, who had picked out their presents, who decorated their bedroom and whatnot, that their loss of their child is the SAME as the millions of "children" being lost to abortion each year is simply cruel in a calculated and heartless way. It makes me shake to think of it. Were I burying my CHILDS BODY, my baby whose life was ripped away from me by some madman, and someone compared my loss to someone choosing to abort their pregnancy, there would not be enough tranquilizers to get me off of the ledge. I really think that you should rethink that argument, very, very carefully.

    I have many friends who had abortions and not one regrets it. THey made that choice for an important reason ~ be it to finish school, because the partner was not a good one, because they were sick with an eating disorder at the time etc etc etc. They don't regret their choice. I DARE you to find one mother who had her child murdered who says that they don't regret it or who lives one DAY wishing that they could not change what happened.

    If you want to own a handgun, great! Want to own a hunting rifle? Great! Want to own an assault rifle? Sorry. No longer. These guns capable of shooting hundreds of rounds/minute? These clips holding huge quantities of bullets have no place in normal society. They are used for nothing good. Normal people see that.
    1- 2nd Amendment is not "crazy talk"
    2- Choosing to murder someone so they can finish school is cruel.
    3- Again 2nd amendment doesn't address hunting or personal protection. So of course Americans should be for the ability to own assault rifles. Doesn't matter how capable they would be against a drone attack.
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  2. #152
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Yes, I think that semi automatic hunting rifles are unnecessary. May it make killing the deer easier? Sure. But lets face it, your family is not going to starve if he doesn't get that deer this year. This is not life or death survival hunting, this is sport hunting, and I would prefer to see those weapons off of the market and hunters refine their skills against defenseless animals. Around here bow hunting is hugely popular. I recently went clay pigeon shooting with a non automatic rifle ~ you had to reload it every two shots. A massacre the likes of columbine or newtown would be impossible with a bow or a rifle like I was shooting.

    I also admit to not being IN ANY WAY any sort of expert on weapons. This is by choice, my family does not own guns and we choose a more peaceful, trusting life. We find that way of life more Christian. All I know is that there is no reason for civilians to be wearing full body armor. There is no reasons for a civilian to own a gun capable of firing hundreds of bullets in minutes. I want America to be as intelligent and as safe as other countries in this regard. I just KNOW we are capable of it! I don't know why other people don't have as much faith in our great country.
    I do understand this thought, and it is a fine individual CHOICE.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    You seem to be forgeting how the government works.

    Congress can pass laws that are clearly unconstitutional. President can sign them. The people can challenge them. SCOTUS decides the outcome. However, SCOTUS doesn't have to hear a case.

    DOMA was signed on Sept. 21, 1996. Clearly it violates Art. 4 section 1. It has taken 16 years for SCOTUS to agree to hear a case challenging DOMA.

    Thus, the gov't could pass a law restricting the sale and manufature of firearms so those available are at a bare minimum.

    I didn't write the 2nd amendment. And I respect people's rights to own certain guns. I also respect the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, 14th, and the 24th amendments which are trampled on "in the name of puplic safety" or "to protect my relgious beliefs but not yours, or to prevent non-existent "threats" to the outcome of elections.
    The 2nd amendment doesn't say "only certain guns"
    I do think it is fine to fight for a change in amendments, just understand what the original amendment said first... Don't say it is for hunting or personal protection, that is NOT why it was written.

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    The 2nd amendment doesn't say "only certain guns"
    I do think it is fine to fight for a change in amendments, just understand what the original amendment said first... Don't say it is for hunting or personal protection, that is NOT why it was written.

    Don't you think its hard to take seriously though when someone says today that they want to preserve the right for this purpose....the purpose that it may have been written for originally but is antiquated and rather obsolete given that the power we would have in firearms now would not be enough to be truly effective over a rogue government?

    It just seems disingenuous no? Almost like one can't find practical reasons today so we cling to what it originally says and say "well i can because it says so...doesnt' really matter if it doesn't make sense anymore or not."

    Seems to me that it would make a lot more sense to point to reasons that DO make sense and are practical today, such as hunting and personal protection.

    One is based on a technicality, one is based on real world scenarios...which is honestly more convincing and likely to be taken seriously?
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Don't you think its hard to take seriously though when someone says today that they want to preserve the right for this purpose....the purpose that it may have been written for originally but is antiquated and rather obsolete given that the power we would have in firearms now would not be enough to be truly effective over a rogue government?

    It just seems disingenuous no? Almost like one can't find practical reasons today so we cling to what it originally says and say "well i can because it says so...doesnt' really matter if it doesn't make sense anymore or not."

    Seems to me that it would make a lot more sense to point to reasons that DO make sense and are practical today, such as hunting and personal protection.

    One is based on a technicality, one is based on real world scenarios...which is honestly more convincing and likely to be taken seriously?
    I don't see it as antiquated at all, and gave good worldwide examples of what may happen when you ban guns in a society.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    I don't see it as antiquated at all, and gave good worldwide examples of what may happen when you ban guns in a society.
    Other countries are not our country. I do not believe a citizen militia could adequately do anything against OUR government and its military.

  7. #157
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    What is really striking me these days is the level of fear in America. Fear of the government, civil wars, gunmen, criminals, police, ordinary citizens. Why so much fear? Is it that scary to leave the house each day that a person needs to CC an semi automatic handgun to feel safe? Really?

    A society that doesn't fear to that extent is possible. I don't know how to get there from where America is now, but it could happen. And this could be a society with guns - but I don't think with military weaponry. We have guns in Canada. Lots and lots of them. We have them in my family in fact. But they are primarily for hunting and sport. They were also purchased through a stringent approval and background check process. They probably took up to 60 days to buy. I am fine with that!

    When I go out I don't have a fear that I will be shot. I sat on the bus last night thinking about how probably no one had a gun on them. From what I see here that would not be the case in America. But when you are sure that someone around you has a gun then you fear that person. When you are sure that they probably don't that fear doesn't exist. I worry more about being hit by a car or mugged by some nasty with a knife than I do about being shot. But even those mugged with a knife still live for the most part. People are not all that likely to die of a gunshot here. (Unless they are in some gang in which case the chance is way higher. Our criminals with guns use them on each other a lot more than on average people. Gang violence is a big issue in some places. But that doesn't make us all carry guns because those gangs are not everywhere nor are they "out to get people". They are out to get money.) Kids here get into trouble for bringing a knife to school much more often than a gun. We don't have small children accidentally killing themselves.

    I wish that some people could experience a society without guns and fear. It would be worth it to give up the guns to not live in fear.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Other countries are not our country. I do not believe a citizen militia could adequately do anything against OUR government and its military.
    1- why wouldn't it be adequate? Should we have MORE people carrying guns? allow people acess to drones?
    2- Just because something wouldn't be adequate should we make it illegal?
    3 - Does it matter that it would be inadequate?
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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    What is really striking me these days is the level of fear in America. Fear of the government, civil wars, gunmen, criminals, police, ordinary citizens. Why so much fear? Is it that scary to leave the house each day that a person needs to CC an semi automatic handgun to feel safe? Really?

    A society that doesn't fear to that extent is possible. I don't know how to get there from where America is now, but it could happen. And this could be a society with guns - but I don't think with military weaponry. We have guns in Canada. Lots and lots of them. We have them in my family in fact. But they are primarily for hunting and sport. They were also purchased through a stringent approval and background check process. They probably took up to 60 days to buy. I am fine with that!

    When I go out I don't have a fear that I will be shot. I sat on the bus last night thinking about how probably no one had a gun on them. From what I see here that would not be the case in America. But when you are sure that someone around you has a gun then you fear that person. When you are sure that they probably don't that fear doesn't exist. I worry more about being hit by a car or mugged by some nasty with a knife than I do about being shot. But even those mugged with a knife still live for the most part. People are not all that likely to die of a gunshot here. (Unless they are in some gang in which case the chance is way higher. Our criminals with guns use them on each other a lot more than on average people. Gang violence is a big issue in some places. But that doesn't make us all carry guns because those gangs are not everywhere nor are they "out to get people". They are out to get money.) Kids here get into trouble for bringing a knife to school much more often than a gun. We don't have small children accidentally killing themselves.

    I wish that some people could experience a society without guns and fear. It would be worth it to give up the guns to not live in fear.
    I disagree that when I know people have guns I am afraid of them.. Off hand I can only think of 2 families I personally know that do not own guns, there may be more but most people I know own guns.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Thats not what i mean. You are taking a specific gun, that the majority of the time is not purchased for hunting. I want to know about guns that are primarily purchased as hunting rifles. Because a huge, and i mean huge amount of them are semi-automatic.



    Can you give me specifics on these countries and their laws? I tried to find information about the Australian ban and could not find details, even on their federal government website...which is really annoying. All that other stuff that you want. I'm all for it.
    We do allow semi-automatic hunting rifles. But there are long back ground checks and certifications and you have to re-certify ever 5 years. There are also no concealed carry permits here. Your gun is at home or out on the range or out hunting. If some one has a gun in a normal setting they would be assumed to be a criminal and have the cops called.

    It think that is part of the big difference. In America you see a gun in public and it is normal and no one thinks twice. Who knows if that gun is for protection or a crime? In Canada you see a gun in public and it is assumed that you are going to use it for a crime and someone will call the police. Criminals cannot disguise themselves as law abiding citizens.
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