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  1. #161
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    I disagree that when I know people have guns I am afraid of them.. Off hand I can only think of 2 families I personally know that do not own guns, there may be more but most people I know own guns.
    You disagree that there is a culture of fear? I have seen plenty of it in this thread alone.
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  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    We do allow semi-automatic hunting rifles. But there are long back ground checks and certifications and you have to re-certify ever 5 years. There are also no concealed carry permits here. Your gun is at home or out on the range or out hunting. If some one has a gun in a normal setting they would be assumed to be a criminal and have the cops called.

    It think that is part of the big difference. In America you see a gun in public and it is normal and no one thinks twice. Who knows if that gun is for protection or a crime? In Canada you see a gun in public and it is assumed that you are going to use it for a crime and someone will call the police. Criminals cannot disguise themselves as law abiding citizens.
    Not sure exactly what you are assuming as far as "seeing a gun in public".. It is rare to open carry. If I do see a gun in open it is either mine, or friends when hunting, talking about them, or target practice, or law enforcement. Most people I know carrying a gun like into a store or other public place is CC. I am trying hard to think if I have ever seen a gun in the open, just being carried.. I think nope, but I have seen them in Gunracks on the back of trucks before. Especially during hunting season. Only handguns I have seen carried openly were law enforcement.
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    What is really striking me these days is the level of fear in America. Fear of the government, civil wars, gunmen, criminals, police, ordinary citizens. Why so much fear? Is it that scary to leave the house each day that a person needs to CC an semi automatic handgun to feel safe? Really?

    A society that doesn't fear to that extent is possible. I don't know how to get there from where America is now, but it could happen. And this could be a society with guns - but I don't think with military weaponry. We have guns in Canada. Lots and lots of them. We have them in my family in fact. But they are primarily for hunting and sport. They were also purchased through a stringent approval and background check process. They probably took up to 60 days to buy. I am fine with that!

    When I go out I don't have a fear that I will be shot. I sat on the bus last night thinking about how probably no one had a gun on them. From what I see here that would not be the case in America. But when you are sure that someone around you has a gun then you fear that person. When you are sure that they probably don't that fear doesn't exist. I worry more about being hit by a car or mugged by some nasty with a knife than I do about being shot. But even those mugged with a knife still live for the most part. People are not all that likely to die of a gunshot here. (Unless they are in some gang in which case the chance is way higher. Our criminals with guns use them on each other a lot more than on average people. Gang violence is a big issue in some places. But that doesn't make us all carry guns because those gangs are not everywhere nor are they "out to get people". They are out to get money.) Kids here get into trouble for bringing a knife to school much more often than a gun. We don't have small children accidentally killing themselves.

    I wish that some people could experience a society without guns and fear. It would be worth it to give up the guns to not live in fear.
    Maybe people would disagree with me, especially given this most recent event, but i really don't live in daily fear of being shot...doesn't even cross my mind. Yes since Friday, i had that emotional tug to keep my kids at home. But i did send them to school and I really did not spend any actual time thinking that they would be shot.

    I've never gotten on a bus and wondered who was carrying a gun. That is not to say that I haven't been uneasy about safety in higher crime areas, a general type of worry or unease.

  4. #164
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Who said anything about making it a requirement? It has been said over and over only those teachers who WANT to participate. Even the program in the original article I posted these teachers are doing it VOLUNTARILY, got their CCL on their own time and it said they are paid a small stipend. Not sure how much that is but I would guess not a large amount. No one said arm EVERY teacher. You are right every teacher wouldn't be a good fit for a program like this. But there are teachers RIGHT NOW who do have the temperament needed and possibly already even have a CC license that aren't allowed to take the guns they already possess to school to protect their students.
    Good. That isn't their role. If guns are needed to protect students then hire security guards. Teachers are there to teach and focus on the students...not risk assessment and focusing on if their gun is secured from the students but still accessible to them.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Not sure exactly what you are assuming as far as "seeing a gun in public".. It is rare to open carry. If I do see a gun in open it is either mine, or friends when hunting, talking about them, or target practice, or law enforcement. Most people I know carrying a gun like into a store or other public place is CC. I am trying hard to think if I have ever seen a gun in the open, just being carried.. I think nope, but I have seen them in Gunracks on the back of trucks before. Especially during hunting season. Only handguns I have seen carried openly were law enforcement.
    I am going to agree and say the only people I have ever seen openly carry a gun are Police Officers, and someone out hunting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    We do allow semi-automatic hunting rifles. But there are long back ground checks and certifications and you have to re-certify ever 5 years. There are also no concealed carry permits here. Your gun is at home or out on the range or out hunting. If some one has a gun in a normal setting they would be assumed to be a criminal and have the cops called.
    This really would be fine with me.

    It think that is part of the big difference. In America you see a gun in public and it is normal and no one thinks twice. Who knows if that gun is for protection or a crime? In Canada you see a gun in public and it is assumed that you are going to use it for a crime and someone will call the police. Criminals cannot disguise themselves as law abiding citizens.
    The bold is totally inaccurate.
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    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    You disagree that there is a culture of fear? I have seen plenty of it in this thread alone.
    I think it is an assumption that owning guns is because we are fearful. Just because someone owns bandaids doesn't mean they are afraid of being cut, just being prepared if they are. We wear seatbelts, does that mean we are afraid of a car accident?

    On the flip side, is a culture of fear of real threats wrong? I would say not being prepared for a real threat is nieve. I think I might like to create a culture of fear in a perp.. If they know we own or I am packing of course I want them afraid of me. But I am not afraid of guns, I am not afraid of people simply because they own guns. I hate evil, and am a bit scared of evil sure.. does some of that fear cause me to be a bit more protective and buy guns to protect myself.. possible.. but not totally. I am more scared of the unknown, than of my neighbor that owns a gun for sure. I am not scared of anyone I know simply because they own guns. I am actually glad they do .
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  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    1- why wouldn't it be adequate? Should we have MORE people carrying guns? allow people acess to drones?
    Because our government has weapons and all sorts of money invested in its military, its too powerful. No i don't think we should be allowed to try to match them in weaponry. I think we should just stop stewing about a theoretical madman dictatorship because its pointless to worry about. I guess I'm saying if it were to happen we couldn't really do much about it.

    2- Just because something wouldn't be adequate should we make it illegal?
    If the original purpose of the law doesn't apply anymore and there are potential benefits by making it illegal, then yes of course.

    3 - Does it matter that it would be inadequate?
    Absolutely....if its inadequate, that should be taken into consideration.

  9. #169
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Then why all of the talk about criminals and their guns and needed to protect yourselves? Is that not fear?

    The only reason I thought about guns on the bus is this debate.

    What I mean by "guns in public" is CC. If someone has a gun in the US they might have a CC permit or not. In Canada they just don't. No one has a gun in their purse.
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  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    I think it is an assumption that owning guns is because we are fearful. Just because someone owns bandaids doesn't mean they are afraid of being cut, just being prepared if they are. We wear seatbelts, does that mean we are afraid of a car accident?

    On the flip side, is a culture of fear of real threats wrong? I would say not being prepared for a real threat is nieve. I think I might like to create a culture of fear in a perp.. If they know we own or I am packing of course I want them afraid of me. But I am not afraid of guns, I am not afraid of people simply because they own guns. I hate evil, and am a bit scared of evil sure.. does some of that fear cause me to be a bit more protective and buy guns to protect myself.. possible.. but not totally. I am more scared of the unknown, than of my neighbor that owns a gun for sure. I am not scared of anyone I know simply because they own guns. I am actually glad they do .
    See I don't fear the evil people. I don't need a gun to protect myself from them. That is why we have a police force.

    I do fear people with guns. I fear the guy who shot his niece at a party because he mistook her for a skunk in her Halloween costume. I fear the guns that will accidentally kill small children because their parents didn't store them properly. I fear the people who shoot first and ask later in the name of protection. I fear that the CC in the school will end up in the hands of a child who will then kill their classmates. I fear so many things that I will never even visit your nation. Because these things do not exist in mine. It feels so much safer when fewer guns.

    ETA - most of the threats I have seen mentioned are not real. Civil wars? The government will take over? Not real threats imo.
    Last edited by fuchsiasky; 12-19-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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