Thread: The Guardian Plan

Originally Posted by fuchsiasky

Then why all of the talk about criminals and their guns and needed to protect yourselves? Is that not fear?

The only reason I thought about guns on the bus is this debate.

What I mean by "guns in public" is CC. If someone has a gun in the US they might have a CC permit or not. In Canada they just don't. No one has a gun in their purse.

I don't know because I don't carry and never had the desire to. If i had to guess? I think people want to be able to protect themselves if the need to arises, but i don't think it necessarily means they live in fear all the time that danger is imminent.

I dont' really know though. I'm not personally protective of CC laws myself

Originally Posted by fuchsiasky

See I don't fear the evil people. I don't need a gun to protect myself from them. That is why we have a police force.

I do fear people with guns. I fear the guy who shot his niece at a party because he mistook her for a skunk in her Halloween costume. I fear the guns that will accidentally kill small children because their parents didn't store them properly. I fear the people who shoot first and ask later in the name of protection. I fear that the CC in the school will end up in the hands of a child who will then kill their classmates. I fear so many things that I will never even visit your nation. Because these things do not exist in mine. It feels so much safer when fewer guns.

ETA - most of the threats I have seen mentioned are not real. Civil wars? The government will take over? Not real threats imo.

Your fear keeps you from traveling? So who is living in a "culture of fear?" Not a real threat.. that is fine if you are not worried about History repeating itself.

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

Gun laws do NOTHING to stop people from having ILLEGAL guns. All they have to do is ENFORCE the laws that already exist. Get the illegal guns off the street before you go after the legal ones.

We've already agreed that the guns started out as legal. Then they were stolen or sold thus becoming illegal.

In the effort to eradicate meth, we also started to regulate legal products such as sudafed that are ingredients used to make meth. We also regulate other legal products that are componenets of other products which are illegal.

Going after illegal guns doesn't stop the problem from the front end. Both need to be addressed.

Originally Posted by Rivergallery

The 2nd amendment doesn't say "only certain guns"
I do think it is fine to fight for a change in amendments, just understand what the original amendment said first... Don't say it is for hunting or personal protection, that is NOT why it was written.

Nor does the first amendment read "only certain speech" or "only certain religions." The 24th amendment doesn't say "except for purchasing something else in order to vote." Nor does the 21st amendment read "only certain intoxicating liquors."

Yet, we seem to be okay with interpreting those amendments to ban hate speech, religious sacrifice and same-sex marriage. We are okay with requiring someone to purchase a document to vote. And we are okay with banning things like moonshine or everclear. In fact, we even have dry counties where they have banned the sale of alcohol completely.

Originally Posted by Rivergallery

Your fear keeps you from traveling? So who is living in a "culture of fear?" Not a real threat.. that is fine if you are not worried about History repeating itself.

I am being realistic. I don't want to visit a place where the response to a massacre is to arm more people. I am not afraid of Canadians, but America scares the hell out of me.

No I am not worried about history repeating itself. I think we as humans are capable of learning. I also think there are much better ways to settle differences. But those ways are a lot harder to achieve if everyone is angry and armed.

ETA - We do have a province that is completely different than the rest of the country. Quebec has a different culture and language. There are a lot of issues. And many of them do not want to be a part of Canada any longer. Do they arm themselves and prepare for civil war? No they elect officials who push a vote to separate. The last one came out 49/51 against separation. Had they voted to leave we would have let them. No wars, no guns, just voting.

Originally Posted by Rivergallery

The likelyhood of surviving a rogue government is not the point. It is the RIGHT to fight a rogue government.

So you recognize that you have ZERO chance in your little fantasy of playing Rivergallery: Minuteman soldier vs. The big bad US Government gone rogue..........but you want the right to die for nothing EVEN if it means that these murderous rampages continue and continue at the accelerated pace that they seem to be on? You won't even entertain the notion of gun control because you want to protect some false version of the 2nd amendment that you cling to fiercely and against all logic, even as you see babies gunned down before your eyes? Wow.

Originally Posted by ethanwinfield

Nor does the first amendment read "only certain speech" or "only certain religions." The 24th amendment doesn't say "except for purchasing something else in order to vote." Nor does the 21st amendment read "only certain intoxicating liquors."

Yet, we seem to be okay with interpreting those amendments to ban hate speech, religious sacrifice and same-sex marriage. We are okay with requiring someone to purchase a document to vote. And we are okay with banning things like moonshine or everclear. In fact, we even have dry counties where they have banned the sale of alcohol completely.

A freaking MEN. This is spot on.

Originally Posted by fuchsiasky

See I don't fear the evil people. I don't need a gun to protect myself from them. That is why we have a police force.

I do fear people with guns. I fear the guy who shot his niece at a party because he mistook her for a skunk in her Halloween costume. I fear the guns that will accidentally kill small children because their parents didn't store them properly. I fear the people who shoot first and ask later in the name of protection. I fear that the CC in the school will end up in the hands of a child who will then kill their classmates. I fear so many things that I will never even visit your nation. Because these things do not exist in mine. It feels so much safer when fewer guns.

ETA - most of the threats I have seen mentioned are not real. Civil wars? The government will take over? Not real threats imo.

ITA with this. There was an incident at my nephew's school yesterday where a middle school student, outraged over a test score, overpowered the teacher and held her in an "armlock" until she agreed to change his score. Just imagine what might have happened if she was carrying a gun and he got a hold of it.

Originally Posted by Spacers

ITA with this. There was an incident at my nephew's school yesterday where a middle school student, outraged over a test score, overpowered the teacher and held her in an "armlock" until she agreed to change his score. Just imagine what might have happened if she was carrying a gun and he got a hold of it.

Exactly. There is still violence. We can't make that go away. But removing guns from the equation lowers the level and removes the fatalities. Those children in China lived through the attack even if they were traumatized and injured.

I think this is an important study to consider if we are talking about arming teachers.

Creepy.

People Holding Guns Perceive Others with Guns, Colorado State University Researcher Says - News & Information - Colorado State University

People Holding Guns Perceive Others with Guns, Colorado State University Researcher Says

FORT COLLINS - People holding guns perceive other people holding guns, according to a new study published this fall by a Colorado State University researcher.
The 217 students participating in the study were asked to react to images on a computer screen. Specifically, they had to determine if the figure on the screen was holding a gun or a neutral object like a wallet or a shoe. The critical manipulation was that some of the participants also held a gun – in this case, a Wii gun.

A majority of students were more biased to perceive the figure in the photograph as holding a gun – even when it was a shoe – when they also held a gun than when they held a rubber ball.
Jessica Witt conducted the research while at Purdue University along with J.R. Brockmole at Notre Dame University. Witt joined Colorado State University this fall as an associate professor with a research focus on perception and action relationships.
“Your ability to respond influences what you see. Specifically when you can respond with a gun, that creates a bias to see guns,” Witt said of the study results, which were published in the October issue of the Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human Perception and Performance.
“The results have theoretical implications for how perception and action interact,” Witt said. “This interaction, however, has negative consequences in the case of guns.”
Witt also said, “For the most part, gun owners care about safety, they lock up guns, they’re careful about who they let use their weapons. We think they’re going to want to know other risks. In this case, another risk is a perceptual bias to see guns when they are holding a gun. Gun owners who care about safety will want to take safety precautions against this bias. We don’t know what those are yet, but those need to be researched.
“We hope that this research leads to safer gun use.”
To continue the research, Witt plans to look at whether this perceptual bias also exists in people who either play violent video games or own guns.