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  1. #271
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    When I go to the bank, I have to go through extensive security and walk past an armed guard on the way in and out. Yet banks still get robbed. Over 150 in CA alone over a 3 month period. Cops carry guns and wear bullet-proof vests. They're the "good guys" with guns. Yet an average of 125 are killed every year in the line of duty. In 2012, 45 of the them were from gun-fire.

    Law enforcement is a dangerous job by nature. It takes a special type of person to risk their lives on a daily basis to keep others safe. That's not my job.

    Many of my students see far more violence in their lives than I could handle knowing. Students openly talk of their father/uncle/cousin who are in prison. Some of them are in there for murder. Some family members have been gunned down. When I was on jury duty, probably 25% of our jury pool had a parent arrested for drugs or a family member a victim of an unsolved murder.

    My job is to give them somewhere they can feel safe for 7 hours a day. They don't fear a gunman breaking into the school. They fear the guy following them on the way to school. They fear the person who killed a middle-schooler Mother's Day 2008 and the murder still is unsolved. Having teachers armed sends the message that we need to protect them from evil while they are at school too. Statistically, more have met some sort of danger on the way to or from school, but we don't react by busing every kid or walking them home.

    At the end of the day, guns aren't going to protect any of them from child abuse or molesters. They aren't going to protect them from being assaulted on the way to school or walking home from a soccer game. Unless, of course, we arm our children too, or escort them everywhere until they are old enough to carry their own gun.
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  2. #272
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    I think a lot of these things give us a false sense of security. The airport is a great example. It's completely reactive. Everybody takes off their shoes AFTER they find a shoe bomber. . .and many, many airports don't make people take off their shoes so what's the point of that? I've had security look INSIDE my carry-on and not see that I (accidentally) had a Swiss Army Knife in there. (I stopped carrying it after that because I knew I'd forget again.) Sometimes the person who's supposed to be looking at the screen of the x-ray of the bags isn't even looking, they're just bored.

    In NYC when you go to a concert, they check the bags in this ridiculous, ineffective way. They take a quick look in with flashlights and don't open any inner pockets.

    One security guard at a school doesn't sound to me like it would solve anything. First of all, the chances of anything happening are ridiculously slim, because it's the crazy factor we're looking at, not the prevention of a regular occurrence. So let's say something happens at one end of the school. The security guard has to (a) find out about it; (b) get there; and (c) have the training to not just burst in and get shot for his/her troubles. Are we talking trained field agents or security guards? Seriously...

    The truth is, you can't set up measures to protect us from random crazy violent people unless we turn our entire country into a fortress and impose martial law. We need to look into our mental health system and how we identify, treat, and take care of/protect ourselves from these people. And yes, when someone stockpiles guns, we need laws to say that it gets looked into. Own a gun legally? Sure. Own 5 guns? Time to need investigation, sorry gun-lovers. Maybe it's fine, maybe it isn't. But it should be a different kind of license with a different kind of evaluation. Same for assault weapons, for example.

    It's not about arming more people or making a handgun harder to get. It's about crazy people, and better systems to identify them and either help them or deal with them, depending on where we are.

    Cosmetic changes to our security (like the airports) don't make me feel one iota safer. I fly a fair bit. My father flies all over the world and the country all the time and says the discrepancies are ridiculous and the methods completely ineffective. I couldn't agree more.

    (Edited to add that I'm talking out of my **s when it comes to gun laws, I don't know what they are really as I have had no reason to care, since I don't want one.)
    Last edited by freddieflounder101; 12-23-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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  3. #273
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    This was in our local news this morning and I thought of this debate. It can be amazing what people will use to stop an intruder. Apparently you don't need a gun if you have a motorcycle helmet.

    A 45-year-old Saanich man beat a possible burglar in the head with his own bike helmet early Saturday morning as he chased him off his property, police report.

    The resident was sleeping when he heard someone trying to open the ground-level bedroom window of his 900-block home of Annie Street around 1 a.m.

    He jumped from his bed and peered through the venetian blinds, coming within inches of a man’s face who immediately ran off.

    The resident ran outside and found a full-face shielded motocross style bike helmet on the ground. He picked up the helmet and flogged the suspect several times in the head.

    The suspect then took the helmet, put it on and sped away on his bike, while carrying a large duffel bag.

    Within 10 minutes, Saanich police arrested a 33-year-old well-known criminal nearby on Saanich Road. The man had several fresh facial wounds and several pieces of identification believed to be stolen, according to the news release from police.

    The man was charged with break and enter and more charges are expected once the owners of the identification are contacted.
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  4. #274
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    Saanich is pretty close to where my mom lives! Is that where you are? She's in Sooke.
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  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    Saanich is pretty close to where my mom lives! Is that where you are? She's in Sooke.
    Yes, we are on the border between saanich and victoria. We are probably about 1/2 and hour from Sooke. It is so beautiful out there. I would love to live farther out but the commute into town is terrible.
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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    Yes, we are on the border between saanich and victoria. We are probably about 1/2 and hour from Sooke. It is so beautiful out there. I would love to live farther out but the commute into town is terrible.
    Saanich is nice (as we've driven through it) and Victoria is lovely, a wonderful city. Sooke has some lovely views (a walk on Whiffen Spit is pretty fantastic) but otherwise I admit I find it a bit isolated and limiting. I'm a city girl.
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  7. #277
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    Looks like there are plenty of teachers that are volunteering to protect themselves.

    200 Utah teachers take free firearms training class | Fox News
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  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Looks like there are plenty of teachers that are volunteering to protect themselves.

    200 Utah teachers take free firearms training class | Fox News
    Then I sincerely hope that they don't end up accidentally shooting one of their students or having one of their students shoot them. Because those are two very possible consequences of their actions.
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  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    Then I sincerely hope that they don't end up accidentally shooting one of their students or having one of their students shoot them. Because those are two very possible consequences of their actions.
    Strange the school district in the original article has had teachers with guns since 2007 and it hasn't happened there.
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  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Looks like there are plenty of teachers that are volunteering to protect themselves.

    200 Utah teachers take free firearms training class | Fox News

    This just happened this morning in NJ. These police officers are presumably trained a heck of a lot more than some teachers who took a 6 hour free class....yet were able to be disarmed and 4 people got shot and one killed. NOT what I want happening in our schools.

    Three cops reportedly shot inside New Jersey police station | Fox News

    I'm with Carol, "It's a terrible idea," said Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education. "It's a horrible, terrible, no-good, rotten idea."

    Read more: 200 Utah teachers take free firearms training class | Fox News
    Especially as its already been proven to not work.

    Yes -- the entire idea that we should create a small army of minimum-wage mercenaries to guard schools, which LaPierre promoted today, is certifiably stupid. As Salon's Alex Seitz-Wald reported, ABC News undertook an experiment back in 2009 where they demonstrated that you could arm people, train them to use their weapon, put them in a school, warn them that there would be an attack on their school, and they would still massively fail to stop the armed assailant that they knew was going to arrive.

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