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  1. #31
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    I think it can be attributed to a lot of things. Why are you so positive that gun control is not part of that equation?
    It might be part of the culture, but if you take our current culture and make stricter gun laws.. thus removing them from law abiding citizens.. not criminals. What will happen? Can you show me where in our culture where most armed citizenry has caused more violent crimes? Because I am seeing the opposite. I am seeing Cops as being the mop up crew, and those with CC if there are stopping the crime if possible... The man in Oregon didn't even have to fire a shot.. he was well trained and knew he wouldn't be able to get a shot off without a risk to others (so he didn't shoot), but he took aim and the shooter fled. Where have these violent offenders come from? Have they come from the Legal CC crowd?


    ETA- you do remember that Norway was occupied by the ****s in WWII? Do you want our country to be like them? WWII wasn't that long ago was it?

    ok one more edit---- Talking about WWII our most decorated soldier.. Audie Murphy.. was what before the war? He was a farm boy, what did he do? He was prolific with a gun, he shot animals for his family's food.. we don't want people to be trained to do what they may be called to do anymore? See this is what I don't understand...

    I do understand not wanting to own guns. I understand not wanting violence.. I get it.. NO ONE WANTS VIOLENCE. Facts are humans will always hurt each other. And if the evil is not stopped often by violence it will not stop by itself.... WWII is such a great example... You think it would have stopped without guns? Without the "GOOD citizens" owning guns?
    Last edited by Rivergallery; 12-18-2012 at 01:23 PM.

  2. #32
    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    What saddens me and breaks my heart is that some of those teachers KNEW the gunman was coming and could do NOTHING but try to hide their children or shield them with their bodies. The shooting was heard over the loudspeaker and all the teachers in the school knew they were in danger and could do nothing but sit there like ducks waiting to be slaughtered. If it makes me sick to my stomach that they had no way to protect themselves because liberals want to dream about the perfect society instead of live in the real world.

    complete ITA.

    If they had been armed it would be a completely different story.

    Something has to change. If people hadn't noticed already things everywhere in this country are ALOT different then when we were kids and going to school. School should be a place where kids can feel safe and be able to learn not have to worry about people coming in and shooting them.

    Also, saying to leave it up to law enforcement? What happens when they are miles away? They can't just jump through a time capulse and be there. They had security, they had one of those buzzer things that the majority of all schools in this country have and he broke and or shot through that.

    I'd love to hear a better idea but until we can actually get and keep people with obvious mental issues off the streets this seems like it's the only answer.

  3. #33
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    It might be part of the culture, but if you take our current culture and make stricter gun laws.. thus removing them from law abiding citizens.. not criminals. What will happen? Can you show me where in our culture where most armed citizenry has caused more violent crimes? Because I am seeing the opposite. I am seeing Cops as being the mop up crew, and those with CC if there are stopping the crime if possible... The man in Oregon didn't even have to fire a shot.. he was well trained and knew he wouldn't be able to get a shot off without a risk to others (so he didn't shoot), but he took aim and the shooter fled. Where have these violent offenders come from? Have they come from the Legal CC crowd?
    First, i don't know of any highly reliable actual evidence, aside from anecdotal observation, that shows that CC'rs are better at protecting the country than our own law enforcement.

    Second, Drastically changing how hard it is to get a gun and what you can do with it does *more* than just take guns out of the hands of 'good people'. So you can't just assume everything else will be the same and now its just that the good people won't have guns to protect everyone else with.

    It would seem in this country we have a problem. Our murder rates, particularly with guns is extremely high. What we are doing is NOT working. As with anything, i think to fix the problem, it needs to be tackled from several different angles. But i see nothing to suggest that tighter gun control should be off the table as a way to fix it. And we are at a point where we cannot afford the luxury of just blowing it off with a "pssshhh, it will never work so lets not bother" attitude. We have a responsiblity to try. We owe it to these families....and everyone else.

    FTR, we are a gun owning family.
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  4. #34
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    Really interesting article on how our 'gun culture' is viewed by other places in the world

    The Connecticut school massacre: How the world sees us - Yahoo! News
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    I think it is a little soon after this tragedy to have this kind of a debate. Emotions are raw.

    DH's school has an armed officer at his school. That is his sole job to guard the school. I think that frees the teachers up to teach. I would hate to be worried about shooting someone at the same time trying to teach math. I also can't imagine some nosey kid looking for the answer key to his teachers desk and finding a gun. That could go bad in so many ways. I think another alternative would be tasers if they were properly trained and out of reach from the kids.

    I do not think the answer is to ban all guns anywhere. They do have their place. They should not be given out to the mentally ill and should have to be kept locked up.

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  6. #36
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    First, i don't know of any highly reliable actual evidence, aside from anecdotal observation, that shows that CC'rs are better at protecting the country than our own law enforcement.

    Second, Drastically changing how hard it is to get a gun and what you can do with it does *more* than just take guns out of the hands of 'good people'. So you can't just assume everything else will be the same and now its just that the good people won't have guns to protect everyone else with.

    It would seem in this country we have a problem. Our murder rates, particularly with guns is extremely high. What we are doing is NOT working. As with anything, i think to fix the problem, it needs to be tackled from several different angles. But i see nothing to suggest that tighter gun control should be off the table as a way to fix it. And we are at a point where we cannot afford the luxury of just blowing it off with a "pssshhh, it will never work so lets not bother" attitude. We have a responsiblity to try. We owe it to these families....and everyone else.

    FTR, we are a gun owning family.
    1- I did not say that CC'rs are better.. just that if there are more of them and if they are already on the scene they will have the opportunity to prevent it.. If they are not allowed to own the weapons there is no way a CC'r would be able to stop it.
    2- Assumptions can definitely be made if you look at what happens to societies when guns are highly regulated. Registration: The **** Paradigm - by Stephen P. Halbrook
    3- I agree something needs to change, but I do not think it comes in regulating law abiding citizens, it comes in not releasing criminals. And aiding with mental health care patients.. DO NOT allow violent people out on our streets period.. Then we wouldn't have to worry about criminals getting guns because there would be so little of them.. only those that had never committed a crime before would every commit a violent crime

  7. #37
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I think it is a little soon after this tragedy to have this kind of a debate. Emotions are raw.
    This will vary from person to person IMO. I still cry every day about what happened on Friday but as a concerned parent and citizen, i'm ready to talk about what we need to do.

    No one who doesn't want to talk about it yet should feel pressured to do so, but at this point i think those who want to talk about it shouldn't be pressured not to. Its important and i think some people feel an urgency to make noise about it, before it fades away into dust like it has so many other times when its easy to just go back to what feels like or normal lives and our normal routines and become complacent about it again. I did not want to talk about it Friday, but as time moves on...i want it to be discussed before people don't want to bother to anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    It would seem in this country we have a problem. Our murder rates, particularly with guns is extremely high. What we are doing is NOT working. As with anything, i think to fix the problem, it needs to be tackled from several different angles. But i see nothing to suggest that tighter gun control should be off the table as a way to fix it. And we are at a point where we cannot afford the luxury of just blowing it off with a "pssshhh, it will never work so lets not bother" attitude. We have a responsiblity to try. We owe it to these families....and everyone else.

    FTR, we are a gun owning family.
    Just for the record.... homicide and gun homicide rates are going DOWN not up.

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by smsturner View Post
    Really interesting article on how our 'gun culture' is viewed by other places in the world

    The Connecticut school massacre: How the world sees us - Yahoo! News
    Can't really get behind any of the people from these nation and their view of our right to bear arms... sorry. Britain? (We bailed them out of WWII) Germany? (Nation that caused WWII), Australia (keep in mind they are an Island nation (we are not), but have also had a dramatic racial history, and started as a penal colony so was born out of violence), Isreal (their teachers have guns strapped to them), India (take a peak at their religious and domestic violence rates)... Hope you see my point. These articles are sound bites for a mass media culture, with nothing deeper than the 5'o clock sound bites.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    This will vary from person to person IMO. I still cry every day about what happened on Friday but as a concerned parent and citizen, i'm ready to talk about what we need to do.

    No one who doesn't want to talk about it yet should feel pressured to do so, but at this point i think those who want to talk about it shouldn't be pressured not to. Its important and i think some people feel an urgency to make noise about it, before it fades away into dust like it has so many other times when its easy to just go back to what feels like or normal lives and our normal routines and become complacent about it again. I did not want to talk about it Friday, but as time moves on...i want it to be discussed before people don't want to bother to anymore.
    I totally agree and think it really should be talked about as it seems to be that legislation will soon be passed further restricting our gun rights, and we should be informed, regardless of which side we take, we should understand what the government wants to do. We should know what has happened in countries that have gone this way, and decide.. #1 is it worth the risk. #2 do we want to mover further away from our constitution.
    I do see it as a risk.. I would rather risk an accidental shooting than a homicidal maniac or a rogue government... AND if a teacher is properly trained they should NOT have their gun in their desk (which someone brought up).. They would have it strapped to them at all times, and know how and when to properly use it.

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