The Guardian Plan - Page 8
Closed Thread
Page 8 of 53 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 528
Like Tree233Likes

Thread: The Guardian Plan

  1. #71
    Super Poster
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Jeddah
    Posts
    678

    Default

    No, no, no to teachers with guns. This is way beyond their scope. No way. What we can do though is improve security and processes. We can have mandatory metal dectectors to pass through before entering the school doors. We can have rules in place where parents etc have to call ahead of time to let the school know they are coming so they know if a visitor should be coming or not. In one of my son'sschools, theree is no way anyone can get in the building unless they are buzzed through. So schools can arrange a small secure foyer with a security system in place before being buzzed through. It would have to be thought out.

    We can work on mental health care. We can have a separate approval division who grants gun permits. That dept could have people trained in psychological profiling and evaluation, maybe like a duty of the FBI or something - or a psych eval for applicants. Then people can take the clearance to. The gun shops. Instead of giving 5 days to get a gun, maybe it will take 6 months. In ine of our recent debates about voting, didnt we lern from some of us that it takes a long time for some to get a driving license? So taking longer for gun clearance of gun permits isnt unrealistic. Then, we can outlaw some kinds of guns. Why do we need anything more than a pistol or single load shot gun? Why do we need something that can fure many bullets?

    I do not have the answers but I have some other options besides arming schools. This is a gigantic resoponsibility to place on the shoulders of schools.
    Last edited by myyams; 12-18-2012 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Sorry for typos, typing on iPad.
    Aisha

  2. #72
    Community Host
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    13,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    No, no, no to teachers with guns. This is way beyond their scope. No way. What we can do though is improve security and processes. We can have mandatory metal dectectors to pass through before entering the school doors. We can have rules in place where parents etc have to call ahead of time to let the school know they are coming so they know if a visitor should be coming or not. In one of my son'sschools, theree is no way anyone can get in the building unless they are buzzed through. So schools can arrange a small secure foyer with a security system in place before being buzzed through. It would have to be thought out.
    I agree with you about not arming teachers, but I did want to point out that the school in CT did have something in place. My understanding was that he came through a window, not that he just walked in the door. I do not know how you prevent this. As someone who has almost died in a house fire, I do not believe the answer is in barring all of the doors and windows either.

    ~Bonita~

  3. #73
    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    7,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by myyams View Post
    No, no, no to teachers with guns. This is way beyond their scope. No way. What we can do though is improve security and processes. We can have mandatory metal dectectors to pass through before entering the school doors. We can have rules in place where parents etc have to call ahead of time to let the school know they are coming so they know if a visitor should be coming or not. In one of my son'sschools, theree is no way anyone can get in the building unless they are buzzed through. So schools can arrange a small secure foyer with a security system in place before being buzzed through. It would have to be thought out.

    We can work on mental health care. We can have a separate approval division who grants gun permits. That dept could have people trained in psychological profiling and evaluation, maybe like a duty of the FBI or something. Then people can take the clearance to. The gun shops. Instead of giving 5 days to get a gun, maybe it will take 6 months. In ine of our recent debates about voting, didnt we lern from some of us that it takes a long time for some to get a driving license? So taking longer for gun clearance of gun permits isnt unrealistic. Then, we can outlaw some kinds of guns. Why do we need anything more than a pistol or single load shot gun? Why do we need something that can fure many bullets?

    I do not have the answers but I have some other options besides arming schools. This is a gigantic resoponsibility to place on the shoulders of schools.

    Bolded: Which Adam Lanza broke/shot through to get into the building. Most every school in this country has one of those systems. It doesn't do much good when you can shoot out the window and get in the building anyway.

  4. #74
    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    7,964

    Default

    I'm adding this into here. I'm sure this isn't going to be the last time this happens until something is done.

    Utah boy brings gun to school, cites Newtown fears

    The 11-year-old boy had an unloaded gun and ammunition in his backpack.
    KEARNS, Utah Authorities say a Utah sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to the mass shooting last week in Newtown, Conn.
    The Salt Lake Tribune reports that two classmates at West Kearns Elementary School reported the gun to a teacher toward the end of the school day Monday.
    Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley says the teacher "immediately apprehended the student," and police responded shortly after.
    Horsley tells KSL-TV that an unloaded gun and ammunition were found in the 11-year-old's backpack. Authorities have not released the child's name.
    Horsley says school police are investing reports that the boy pointed the gun at another child's head. He says such accounts haven't been confirmed.
    Authorities say no one was injured.

  5. #75
    Prolific Poster
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,222

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    LOL - I am sure they COULD. They were the most intellectual minds at the time and the people voted them to represent them. There were such things as cannons, bomb, firearms. And they knew that these things would get more and more developed, new things would be created. Their point in the second amendment still stands. They wanted the populous to be able to defend itself.
    Seriously? I don't doubt they weren't intelligent but I find it hard to believe they could foresee and predict the technological advances we have had in the past 200+ years.
    KimPossible likes this.

  6. #76
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I'm sorry, what is your argument? Are you saying that they could have done nothing and that would have worked, since apparently doing nothing is working here? If you think doing nothing is working just fine here, why are we tossing around these teacher-as-Clint-Eastwood fantasies? We're just fine, apparently, doing nothing to combat gun violence.
    Actually gun sales have gone UP at the same time as the gun homicide rate has gone DOWN. What doesn't work are gun free zones. The only people who don't take guns into gun free zones are law abiding citizens. Do you think it is just a coincidence that out of the 6 movie theaters playing the Batman movie in his area, the Aurora shooter didn't pick the one closest to his home, he picked the only one that didn't allow guns and had it clearly posted they weren't allowed?
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  7. #77
    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Northeast, USA
    Posts
    7,964

    Default

    Gun control offers no cure-all in America - NBC Politics


    Here’s a look at some basic data on gun manufacture, imports, and ownership, as well as data on crime committed by people using guns.



















    How many guns do Americans own?
    According to the Congressional Research Service, in 2009 there were an estimated 310 million firearms in the United States (not including weapons on military bases), of which 114 million were handguns, 110 million were rifles, and 86 million were shotguns. The current population of the United States, according to the Census, is around 314 million.
    A separate calculation by the Government Accountability Office estimated that 118 million handguns were available for sale to, or were possessed by, civilians in the United States in 2010.
    It’s impossible to know for certain how many guns are in private hands because there is no central firearms registry. The 1986 McClure-Volkmer Act forbids the federal government from establishing any “system of registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearms transactions or distribution.” And the 1993 Brady Act prohibits the establishment of any electronic registry of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions.
    How many firearms are manufactured in the United States?
    According to the annual statistical report from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, in 2010 more than 5.4 million firearms were manufactured in the United States. In the 20 years from 1990 to 2010, an average of 4 million firearms were made in the United States every year.
    How many firearms are imported into the United States annually?
    According to the ATF, 3.2 million guns were legally imported into the United States in 2011, up from 1.3 million in 2001.

    How many firms in the United States make and sell firearms?
    The National Shooting Sports Foundation, the trade association for the firearms industry, has a membership of more than 7,000 manufacturers, distributors, retailers, shooting ranges, and other businesses.
    Companies in the United States that make, distribute and sell firearms employ more than 98,000 people, according to the NSSF. In 2012 the firearms and ammunition industry was responsible for as much as $31.8 billion in total economic activity in the country, according to a study done for NSSF.
    Revenues for Sturm Ruger, one of the leading U.S. gun manufacturers increased from $146 million in 2004 to $329 million in 2011; another leading U.S. gun maker Smith & Wesson saw its revenues go from $120 million to $412 million in that same period.
    How does the number of murders committed with firearms compare to the number of suicides committed with firearms?
    According to the National Center for Health Statistics, in 2011 there were 19,766 suicides committed with firearms and 11,101 homicides committed with firearms.
    What percentage of murders are committed by people using guns?
    According to the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, in 2011 firearms were used in 68 percent of the nation’s murders, 41 percent of robberies, and 21 percent of aggravated assaults.

















    How has the rate of firearms-related murder changed in recent years?
    In 2011 there were 14,612 murder victims, of which 9,903 were killed by assailants with firearms, according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.
    The rate of firearms-related murders in 2011 was 3.2 per 100,000 people – a sharp decline from 1993 when the rate of firearms-related murders was 6.6 per 100,000 people.
    The number of firearms-related murder victims dropped from more than 17,000 in 1993 to 9,903 in 2011.
    How many Americans have permits to carry a concealed weapon?
    According to state data compiled by the GAO, there were approximately 8 million active concealed-carry permits in the United States as of the end of 2011.
    “Shall issue” states are states in which the law requires authorities to issue a concealed-carry gun permit to an applicant who fulfills the objective statutory criteria if no reason for denial exists. According to the GAO, the number of shall-issue states increased from 29 in 2002 to 39 this year. In addition the number of states that that do not require a permit to carry a concealed gun has increased from one state in 2002 to 4 states in 2012.
    How many purchaser background checks have been performed under the 1993 Brady Act and what percentage of applicants has been denied permission to buy a gun?
    In 2009, more than 10.7 million background checks were conducted and about 150,000 people were blocked from making the gun purchase they tried to make.
    From 1999 to 2009 the largest number of denials – about 900,000, or 56 percent of all denials – was due to a would-be buyer having a felony conviction. In addition, about 15 percent of denials were due to a would-be buyer having a conviction for domestic violence or being under a restraining order. Only about 1.8 percent of denials were due to mental illness.
    Under federal law it is a crime to sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to any person who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.” In addition almost all states have similar laws.

  8. #78
    Posting Addict
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    7,315

    Default

    The gunman did obtain the weapons illegally. How? A "responsible" gun owner allowed someone whom she knew to have a history of mental health issues access to her weapons.

    By the time students are in middle school, many could easily over-power their teachers. All it would take is one student to jump a gun-carrying teacher in the parking lot and, well, I don't even want to think about it. Or a teacher genuinely fears for his/her safety and then claims self-defense? What next?

    One of my friends posted on facebook the quote that is going around about one failed shoe bomb attempt and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Yet there have been 31 school shootings since Columbine.

    No one would argue that we have the right to wear shoes. Many are willing to go along with that precaution in the name of the greater good so taking them off isn't unreasonable. Yet for some reason, placing limits on guns for the greater good is violating my rights. What about others who have the right to be safe?

    If every adult over the age of 18/21 was issued a weapon, how exactly would we overthrow the government? In WWII we bombed Japan. Face it, no matter what weapons or ammo we have legal access to, we aren't going to win. I actually find the argument that we must be able to overthrow the government if necessary a bit odd. We will defend a cop's or a neighborhood watchman's right to shoot to kill because he felt threatened without second-guessing their judgment. If a cop killed someone, that person must have deserved it. We won't question our government on the one hand but fantasize about needing to overthrow it on the other hand?

  9. #79
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    One of my friends posted on facebook the quote that is going around about one failed shoe bomb attempt and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Yet there have been 31 school shootings since Columbine.
    But we didn't JUST take our shoes off. We put air marshalls on planes. Yet we leave our schools unprotected except for a gun free sign.
    Rivergallery likes this.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  10. #80
    Posting Addict Alissa_Sal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Debating Away on the Debate Board!
    Posts
    11,771

    Default

    Sorry Gloria, I have to walk away from this. This stuff is too personal. I knew someone who was shot in Aurora. I graduated from a Littleton school in 1998; I knew kids that lived through Columbine. It's way too personal. Carry on, ladies.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

    Got an opinion? We've got a board! Come join us for some lively debate on the Face Off! Debate Arena board.

Closed Thread
Page 8 of 53 FirstFirst ... 45678910111218 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
v -->

About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy | Sitemap | Terms & Conditions