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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    ethanwindfield, are you being purposefully obtuse? It is a widely different situation for people to go and look directly for information about home ownership and to have peoples names and addresses published in a newspaper article. I think it is pretty silly to try to compare the two

    My sister was in an abusive relationship. When she left she only rented for a number of years because, although not impossible, it made it much harder for her ex to find her address.
    When I look up the database of registered sex offenders, I can type in an address/zip code and get a map of little dots where registered sex offenders live. I can also search by name. When I looked at this map, I could find little dots of gun-permit holders, but not search it by name. Am I missing something? Just knowing a person's name isn't going to help me find their address from this map.

    So if the reason Gloria is against this is because people who have a vendetta against cops could find where they live, I'm pointing out that acquiring the information on where someone lives is a lot easier than that. We're starting with a little dot on a map and working outwards instead of starting with a name and working inwards. We have 750,000 people in our valley. If every single home had a little dot on the map that I could click on the find out their name, it would take me forever and be very ineffective.

    It reminds me of Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. The boy starts with a key and searches for a year to find the lock.

    As for renting v. home ownership, I don't know...I've had no problem finding addresses for people who I know are renting. (The 2 I looked up just now are LE, so I know they own guns.)

    People do not have the privacy they think they do on the Internet. It's not like 20 years ago when you tore pages out of the phone book attached to payphones in the vicinity of where you thought they lived.

    (OT: I recently had to verify certain information for my CC. Usually the questions come up, "You have a car loan through [company's name] your car payment is..." and then it has four choices. This last time it asked me, "[Ex-husband's ex-wife's name] has a mortgage through..." What!? I called and they said my ex's ex's wife and I were somehow linked at some point. Again, what!?)

  2. #22
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    I agree that the biggest danger here -- in practical, direct way -- is that burglars are going to head for the homes without guns.

    I don't understand why someone who owned a gun would care if people knew about it, but I DO understand the general feelings about privacy, and I don't like where we have arrived as a society. It's in the paper, it's on the web, anyone who has met me could actually go onto the web and find a map to my house, the cost of my house, my relatives, etc. It's terrible. I know so few people who have managed to stay off the grid and they have to live their whole lives that way.

    But to think you have any sort of privacy at all if you don't stay off the grid is naive. People can find out all kinds of things about you even if you're not on social media, don't publish things in your name, etc. It's also easy for MIS-information to travel like crazy, I had an identity theft issue years ago and some sites still report me as having an address in Brooklyn, which I have never had in my life, because the person who stole my SS# gave a Brooklyn address when they took out a credit card in my name.

    So the gun owners deserve the same privacy as everyone else, and publishing that info in a newspaper article is creepy. Still, from a practical point, it's everyone ELSE who will suffer from that article.

    For the record, I'm against the sex offenders registry too. I don't think it does anybody any good at all.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Even homeowners names and addresses are not published online for all the world to look up on an interactive map. You would have to go look up the tax records.
    That isn't true. I can do it in two seconds on line.

  4. #24
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    Sex offenders have committed a crime. Gun owners, just by having a gun have not. I believe the big reason that people should have to actively seek the information is that there is typically a digital trail when you seek information, if some crime were committed using the information published in the paper the cops would not have the digital trail to help them.

    Recently here there was a group that sued the Sherriff to obtain a list of people that have a concealed carry license. Under the freedom of information act the person sueing won. They were however told by the judge not to publish the information anywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    I agree that the biggest danger here -- in practical, direct way -- is that burglars are going to head for the homes without guns.

    I don't understand why someone who owned a gun would care if people knew about it, but I DO understand the general feelings about privacy, and I don't like where we have arrived as a society. It's in the paper, it's on the web, anyone who has met me could actually go onto the web and find a map to my house, the cost of my house, my relatives, etc. It's terrible. I know so few people who have managed to stay off the grid and they have to live their whole lives that way.

    But to think you have any sort of privacy at all if you don't stay off the grid is naive. People can find out all kinds of things about you even if you're not on social media, don't publish things in your name, etc. It's also easy for MIS-information to travel like crazy, I had an identity theft issue years ago and some sites still report me as having an address in Brooklyn, which I have never had in my life, because the person who stole my SS# gave a Brooklyn address when they took out a credit card in my name.

    So the gun owners deserve the same privacy as everyone else, and publishing that info in a newspaper article is creepy. Still, from a practical point, it's everyone ELSE who will suffer from that article.

    For the record, I'm against the sex offenders registry too. I don't think it does anybody any good at all.
    I agree with this. I don't think that this list actually puts gun owners in any more danger than anything else in this digital age. But I still don't like it from a "feels yucky" point of view.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    Sex offenders have committed a crime. Gun owners, just by having a gun have not. I believe the big reason that people should have to actively seek the information is that there is typically a digital trail when you seek information, if some crime were committed using the information published in the paper the cops would not have the digital trail to help them.
    It's not about the crime, though, it's about the effectiveness and the effects of it. First, a "sex offender" can be someone who unwittingly had sex with a minor and got caught, it's not always someone who is preying on kids. Second, it gives people a false sense of security because they think they know where the sex offenders are, so they think everywhere else is safe. Third, it serves to further marginalize people who may be trying to find their way back into morality and normal society, and makes it impossible for them to do so without actually making it any safer for anybody around them. My first priority is the safety of innocents, and I don't think the sex offenders registry being public does anything to help that at all.

    Sorry for the tangent.

    I just think those types of things make people feel a very false sense of security or knowledge or smugness, and helps no one, whether it's gun owners or sex offenders or whoever.
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  7. #27
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    I guess that this doesn't bother me bc of the extent of information that I'm able to discover about people in my work. Salaries, SEC filings, home values, magazine subscriptions, NCOA (national change of address, regardless if you are renting, buying, or living with family members-- if you get mail, I can find your address), car and boat registrations, etc. Gun ownership just seems lumped into this.

    I don't see the big issue with publishing it.....
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  8. #28
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    I guess that this doesn't bother me bc of the extent of information that I'm able to discover about people in my work. Salaries, SEC filings, home values, magazine subscriptions, NCOA (national change of address, regardless if you are renting, buying, or living with family members-- if you get mail, I can find your address), car and boat registrations, etc. Gun ownership just seems lumped into this.

    I don't see the big issue with publishing it.....
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    It's not about the crime, though, it's about the effectiveness and the effects of it. First, a "sex offender" can be someone who unwittingly had sex with a minor and got caught, it's not always someone who is preying on kids. Second, it gives people a false sense of security because they think they know where the sex offenders are, so they think everywhere else is safe. Third, it serves to further marginalize people who may be trying to find their way back into morality and normal society, and makes it impossible for them to do so without actually making it any safer for anybody around them. My first priority is the safety of innocents, and I don't think the sex offenders registry being public does anything to help that at all.

    Sorry for the tangent.

    I just think those types of things make people feel a very false sense of security or knowledge or smugness, and helps no one, whether it's gun owners or sex offenders or whoever.
    I do not agree with sex offender registries either. but it was brought up by ethanwinfield that sex offender registries are available so gun owners should be too. I disagree with these 2 groups being compared at all.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    I do not agree with sex offender registries either. but it was brought up by ethanwinfield that sex offender registries are available so gun owners should be too. I disagree with these 2 groups being compared at all.
    That's NOT what I wrote.

    When I look up the database of registered sex offenders, I can type in an address/zip code and get a map of little dots where registered sex offenders live. I can also search by name. When I looked at this map, I could find little dots of gun-permit holders, but not search it by name. Am I missing something? Just knowing a person's name isn't going to help me find their address from this map.
    My point is you CAN'T look up a gun permit by the person's name. I can't enter my name and city and have it come up that I have a gun permit. It's just dots on a map.

    With the sex offender database, it works both ways. I can look up my block and see who is living within a mile radius of my house OR I can enter a person's name and see if it's a match.

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