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  1. #101
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Absolutely. Australia and UK are COMPLETELY different because the general populace never had guns to begin with. There IS NO WAY that everyone is going to turn their guns in, especially the criminals. Not gonna happen even if it wasn't UNCONSTITUTIONAL. So if a killer shows up in my house with a gun there is no way to stop them other than having a gun. Sure the police MIGHT show up in time to save me, but I really doubt it since we live in a rural area so it would take them probably 20 minutes at least to get there. By that time I or my kids would be dead.
    Yup.. and guess what.. police use.. guns... there is something positive to be said for guns being able to protect innocent people
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  2. #102
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    i think a buy back program would be great. i read that 15% of gun related crimes are done with stolen guns, and from the source, it seems that illegally purchased guns that were previously stolen are actually counted separately. less legally purchased guns to steal from is a good thing. plus I'm sure that would also help with the counts of accidental gun deaths, or some crimes of passion.

    No on solution is going to wripe away all gun related crime, that doesn't mean you ignore all options that would affect the numbers on a small scale. And those who are anti gun control, you should love this because you don't even have to give up your gun...Just people who want to. if you wanted to give off any sense that you care about existing stats,, this seems such a logical place to put out a cooperative hand. It's safe for you...It's based on personal choice.

    And to just say "well it won't work at all" without a)trying it out b)substantial evidence that it won't affect the numbers at all appears to be extremely uncooperative and gives off an feeling of just doing whatever sounds anti-gun control no matter what.
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  3. #103
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    Here we can't shoot someone for just being on our property. If we hurt or kill someone just because they are trespassing we're in trouble. Only if self defense can be proven. I'm good with that. So owning it for protection is limited. How about that for a start.

    And I believe (but may be wrong) that the police in England do not carry guns?
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  4. #104
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Isn't it strange how as gun ownership keeps going up the gun crime rate keeps going down?

    Gun crime has plunged in the United States since its peak in the middle of the 1990s, including gun killings, assaults, robberies and other crimes, two new studies of government data show.

    Yet few Americans are aware of the dramatic drop, and more than half believe gun crime has risen, according to a newly released survey by the Pew Research Center.

    In less than two decades, the gun murder rate has been nearly cut in half. Other gun crimes fell even more sharply, paralleling a broader drop in violent crimes committed with or without guns. Violent crime dropped steeply during the 1990s and has fallen less dramatically since the turn of the millennium.

    The number of gun killings dropped 39% between 1993 and 2011, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported in a separate report released Tuesday. Gun crimes that weren’t fatal fell by 69%. However, guns still remain the most common murder weapon in the United States, the report noted. Between 1993 and 2011, more than two out of three murders in the U.S. were carried out with guns, the Bureau of Justice Statistics found.

    The bureau also looked into non-fatal violent crimes. Few victims of such crimes -- less than 1% -- reported using a firearm to defend themselves.

    Despite the remarkable drop in gun crime, only 12% of Americans surveyed said gun crime had declined compared with two decades ago, according to Pew, which surveyed more than 900 adults this spring. Twenty-six percent said it had stayed the same, and 56% thought it had increased.

    It’s unclear whether media coverage is driving the misconception that such violence is up. The mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., and Aurora, Colo., were among the news stories most closely watched by Americans last year, Pew found. Crime has also been a growing focus for national newscasts and morning network shows in the past five years but has become less common on local television news.

    “It’s hard to know what’s going on there,” said D’Vera Cohn, senior writer at the Pew Research Center. Women, people of color and the elderly were more likely to believe that gun crime was up than men, younger adults or white people. The center plans to examine crime issues more closely later this year.

    Though violence has dropped, the United States still has a higher murder rate than most other developed countries, though not the highest in the world, the Pew study noted. A Swiss research group, the Small Arms Survey, says that the U.S. has more guns per capita than any other country.

    Experts debate why overall crime has fallen, attributing the drop to all manner of causes, such as the withering of the crack cocaine market and surging incarceration rates.

    Some researchers have even linked dropping crime to reduced lead in gasoline, pointing out that lead can cause increased aggression and impulsive behavior in exposed children.

    The victims of gun killings are overwhelmingly male and disproportionately black, according to Bureau of Justice Statistics and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data. Compared with other parts of the country, the South had the highest rates of gun violence, including both murders and other violent gun crimes.
    Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study - latimes.com
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Absolutely. Australia and UK are COMPLETELY different because the general populace never had guns to begin with.
    Australians don't have guns????? That is a blatant lie. Civilians in Australia have almost 4 million guns.
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  6. #106
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Isn't it strange how as gun ownership keeps going up the gun crime rate keeps going down?



    Gun crime has plunged, but Americans think it's up, says study - latimes.com
    Are you trying to suggest that gun crime has gone down because gun ownership has gone up? If so, are you just saying that's your gut feeling as to why? Or did you find an article/research paper that actually confirmed this.
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  7. #107
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    It is amazing to me the outrage of roughly 31,000 dying each year due to guns. The people rallying around saying that everything possible to be done to save as many of those lives as possible. That some good honest people should make sacrifices of their constitutional gun rights in order to save some of these precious lives. However, no one cares about the 1.2 million babies being aborted every year. That we can't possibly put any restrictions on abortions because it would infringe on the very few that were raped or deformed.

    The irony is astounding.

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It is amazing to me the outrage of roughly 31,000 dying each year due to guns. The people rallying around saying that everything possible to be done to save as many of those lives as possible. That some good honest people should make sacrifices of their constitutional gun rights in order to save some of these precious lives. However, no one cares about the 1.2 million babies being aborted every year. That we can't possibly put any restrictions on abortions because it would infringe on the very few that were raped or deformed.

    The irony is astounding.
    It IS astounding, how you bring abortion into every debate. Its like you can't find anything on point to debate so you resort to "precious lives". Missy, I'm begging you that we go back to the old format and have an abortion only board. This is so spanking tiresome.

    And I completely disagree with your logic, just like I disagree with Glorias. You are saying that because people abort bundles of cells that 31,000 deaths of real, living, sons and daughters ought just be no big deal? And you think that people SHOULD NOT be outraged that our kids and fellow americans are dying? That Sandy HOok should NOT outrage us, just because we support a womans right to choose? Right. Like all of your neighbors, the ones who don't get abortions. I bet they aren't outraged about gun violence either because they are all a bunch of baby killers.

    Lets just apply that logic to EVERYTHING!

    Hey, there should be no speeding laws because 1.2 million precious lives are lost to abortion every year ~ what are a few tens of thousands of traffic deaths compared to that?

    Hey, lets legalize all drugs because 1.2 million precious lives are lost to abortion every year, what are some OD's or drug lord wars compared to those precious lives?

    Hey! How dare anyone bother to care about petty things like education when 1.2 PRECIOUS LIVES are being lost to abortion every year? How selfish and stupid!

    Sounds like a great plan, Bonita.

    As to your last bolded, its clear you have little comprehension of what people on here support abortion FOR. That however, is another debate. I challenge you to find one poster on here who would say that one of the reasons that they support abortion is so that we can rid the world of deformed babies. Just because you don't understand something don't you dare misrepresent the valid and well thought out opinions of others.

    And you know what? I don't care about other peoples fetuses that much. I just don't. I do care about my living children and my living, breathing, fellow americans. And for you to compare some barely pink pee stick of a 6 week old pregnancy who was then aborted to my living breathing children and wonder why I care about people killing my children? Well, it isn't complicated. And I think that it is completely sick and effed up and I simply don't BELIEVE those of you who purport to care so much about that "precious" fetal tissue but don't seem to give a lick about the living breathing babies who are being killed. So I guess I throw your question back at you. Why so interested in the contents of other peoples precious womb's but the second that those babies come out your "rights" are then more important than my babies? The irony IS astounding.
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  9. #109
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It is amazing to me the outrage of roughly 31,000 dying each year due to guns. The people rallying around saying that everything possible to be done to save as many of those lives as possible. That some good honest people should make sacrifices of their constitutional gun rights in order to save some of these precious lives. However, no one cares about the 1.2 million babies being aborted every year. That we can't possibly put any restrictions on abortions because it would infringe on the very few that were raped or deformed.

    The irony is astounding.
    The bold, that is similar to something I've said a couple of times in this thread so I'd like to make a few comments in response to your post
    1)I didn't say give up their constitutional rights, do you want to actually debate if what was suggested 'gives up contitutional rights'? Or do you want to talk about abortion instead

    2)Interesting too because while I had said that regular responsible people have to make changes to their lives a little...i've never actually told you or debated with you my stance on abortion.

    3)I didn't realize that Gloria and Rivergallery and others were actually bringing into question if all those 31,000 people killed by guns were actually people or not. I mean obviously if you are going to make that comparison and be astounded by the irony....that must be the case.

    Really that post had such an air of arrogance about it, when it isn't even logically sound. You do know by now, that there is a lot of controversy over the personhood of fetuses don't you? Is it really that difficult for you to realize that people might have a strong reaction towards people that are obviously people with no questions asked...and something that might be a person but no one is really sure nor no one can prove?

    Whether someone is pro-life pro-choice or whatever....the above should be obvious.

    Lets get back to how we feel about THIS issue, instead of talking about YOUR issue.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-08-2013 at 07:48 AM.

  10. #110
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    It IS astounding, how you bring abortion into every debate. Its like you can't find anything on point to debate so you resort to "precious lives". Missy, I'm begging you that we go back to the old format and have an abortion only board. This is so spanking tiresome.
    While you are at it why don't you beg Missy to make you stop all your personal attacks. That would be nice.
    Rivergallery likes this.
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