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  1. #51
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Hey 15600 was a HUGE OMG number to you on the last debate. If 31000 in this one is no big sweat I get it. Double the number of actual people vs fetuses. Dead. But you don't care at all. That's cool. Anyway I'm celebrating the faux holiday of 5 may so I will have to catch you ttomorrow.
    How did 114 turn into 31,000? We are talking about accidental deaths here not people purposely killing each other. And if I remember right you said that 1.3 % was a TINY percentage. Tell me what is percentage of 31,000 guns used to kill compared to the 300,000,000 people that own guns that don't kill with them? Oh right 1.03%
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    How did 114 turn into 31,000? We are talking about accidental deaths here not people purposely killing each other. And if I remember right you said that 1.3 % was a TINY percentage. Tell me what is percentage of 31,000 guns used to kill compared to the 300,000,000 people that own guns that don't kill with them? Oh right 1.03%
    I'm not just talking about accidental deaths. The OP asked what we as Americans thought about guns. That is what I'm answering. I think that 31000 is a really big number.

    I don't understand your hang up on the whole tiny percentage thing. Women getting abortions get them. They have the same result, the baby dies, we agree on that, right? I was simply pointing out that a small percentage of abortions happen at a certain point in a pregnancy. That was and remains to be an accurate statement. Of course 1.03% is a tiny percentage of deaths compared to the number of guns we have. What scares me is that that makes 31,000 deaths ACCEPTABLE to you, versus making the number of guns americans have UNACCEPTABLE to you.
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  3. #53
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    To the bolded, I guess. I don't know, I frequently get told I'm stereotyping because I admit that I frequently do it. I also willingly accept that there are exceptions to every stereotype and of COURSE not every person who does or is XYZ is automatically one way. But as I pull into my gym in the morning, and there are 300 cars that look exactly like mine, and there are 300 women in their mid to late 30's rushing with their 3-4 young and closely spaced kids (careers first of course) into classes and they are dressed in almost identical clothes and brands as I am and we then all drive our children to the same preschools and do the same tball and dance and PTA circuits and whatnot.....it couldn't hit me in the face more clearly that yes, I am exactly like a stereotype of a SAHM suburban Mom. Is that awful? Are there things about me that make me very different? Of COURSE! But in many ways I fit very neatly into that stereotype. So, no, I don't think that I am one of the people generally squaking about others doing that. We do it to poor black people, we do it of immigrants, we do it happily to the "greedy CEO's!!!!" etc etc....we all do it, all the time. And you may be more sensitive to this one, but that doesn't mean that we should all pretend that there isn't an image out there of some NRA gun toting NOT so educated person talking about his "freedoms".....and like it or not you may be nothing like him but to many, especially if you fight to limit any sort of gun control or to even acknowledge that we have a problem, you are the same as him. I know that you DON'T want no limits or no background checks etc, but like I acknowledged, there are exceptions and variations within any group of people. Not all golfers come from wealthy backgrounds. Not all women with frozen faces have self image issues or body dysmorphic disorder (okay I don't believe that one ) anyway.
    Okay, well here's the deal, i get what you are saying, and I still maintain that its not okay to assume anything else about someone based on one piece of information even if 'we all do it'..but with gun ownership, due to the sheer amount of gun owners there are, i think the typical gun owner stereotype doesn't fit as well and neatly as we like to make it sound. By nature they are extreme...and by definition, extreme can't be the norm, or else it wouldn't be extreme.

    Anyway, i think we all get a little defensive when pigeon-holed or labeled as something we feel is inaccurate. Even you. (Elitest? we had a long conversation about that one day) I guess i don't see the point in questioning why someone would get defensive when they are labeled incorrectly. Maybe we all have our good days where we take it on the nose and its no big deal...but i don't think any one truly can say "I 100% don't care..always"

    I think that the swimming pool thing is a tough comparison to make with a straight face.

    Two thoughts~ it is hard for me to compare the deaths of 687 people over 4 years to the, what was it, like 31,000 gun deaths in the US in JUST 2012?
    Secondly I don't see the data being all that compelling that its residential pools that are the problem, certainly not for black people, BARELY so for white people, and hispanics seem to die in apartment pools. Soooooo, yeah, I could see more of an argument for banning ALL pools than just banning residential ones, really. And if people wanted to ban ALL guns without trying to figure out a way (like gun storage clubs for sport etc) where background checked people could check out their own guns when they plan to hunt/fish etc then yes,well, I think that that would be as illogical as banning all pools. But when a crazy person can steal their mothers Semi automatic, or Glorias POLICE OFFICER husband can have all of his guns stolen from his house, when young babies are shooting one another to death with guns.....yes, there is a problem with how guns are handled and controlled in this country. Fact.

    In 2015 they predict that more Americans will die from gun violence than from driving. Could that possibly be related to all of the regulation surrounding seatbelts, carseats, crash test safety ratings, and crackdown on what people can do in their home (drink) before they drive? I think so. Why is it sooooooo crazy to ask for the same surrounding guns? Wasn't gloria or someone saying that a car was a weapon on the walmart shooting debate? We regulate the heck out of that weapon, why can't we regulate guns much the same way?

    And really, at the end of the day, other countries have done it. We just aren't THAT much more backward that we couldn't figure this out like the rest of the civilized world, are we?. The rate that Americans are killing Americans is downright shameful, so, yeah, I'm okay with understanding why someone who lives in a country where they have a minute number of gun related deaths looks at us like Minx in the OP and says " I just don't get it". I don't either. That is what I was replying to , more than the actual news story, sorry if I wasn't clear.
    Well my point at the time was that we don't make people take their possessions and store them somewhere else due to the fact that there are other parents who aren't responsible for them.

    But then you clarified, that you were talking about the broader picture.

    I agree with you. Pretty much all if it, except the solution of making people store their guns somewhere else. That was what i objected to. I'm for regulation, that's just not one i support.

    ETA: Maybe incentives to store your gone somewhere else...i could get behind that.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-06-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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  4. #54
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    FTR the only reason I'm even into the idea of storing weapons somewhere is because you honestly stated that semi automatic hunting gun were necessary (or super helpful) and I value your opinion as I know you are an educated woman, a good Mom, and know a lot more about hunting (and guns) than I do. So if you tell me that these guns, which honestly I would prefer to see banned, really ARE useful for hunting, not just mowing down large groups of people in seconds, I believe you. So there should be a way for good people like Seamus to be able to keep his gun. I just don't think he should be able to keep it at his house. He could use it to hunt, but it would be professionally secured so theft or accidental children injury or the mentally ill neighbor off his meds couldn't come steal it. I think that its a good middle ground rather than banning all of those weapons outright.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    FTR the only reason I'm even into the idea of storing weapons somewhere is because you honestly stated that semi automatic hunting gun were necessary (or super helpful) and I value your opinion as I know you are an educated woman, a good Mom, and know a lot more about hunting (and guns) than I do. So if you tell me that these guns, which honestly I would prefer to see banned, really ARE useful for hunting, not just mowing down large groups of people in seconds, I believe you. So there should be a way for good people like Seamus to be able to keep his gun. I just don't think he should be able to keep it at his house. He could use it to hunt, but it would be professionally secured so theft or accidental children injury or the mentally ill neighbor off his meds couldn't come steal it. I think that its a good middle ground rather than banning all of those weapons outright.
    Well I appreciate the comment. I don't know if i can make the leap to support a mandate on that. Only because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me, if i can take it out, keep it on my property all day, use it on my property, or someone else's private property but have to send it somewhere else while we are in bed.

    Plus I think it would signficantly cut down on the proficiency one would have with using a gun. It turns a 30 minute exercise into a 3 hour exercise unless these deposits are as frequent as post offices. Plus if i take it out in the morning, bring it home to practice some target shooting, or to actually hunt, where are the hunters leaving the guns when they aren't actually holding them in their hands? Like when they come home for lunch. Or if we take it out in the morning, practice some shooting...would probably like to again before we return it by the end of the day. Where does it sit in the meanwhile? If you deposit them somewhere else, you are going to be less likely to have a gun safe at home.

    I think i could be supportive of incentives to store them somewhere else. Because for a lot of people, they can't even use it on their own property and mainly have to go somewhere else to use it anyway and would have no reason not to cash in on any incentive offered.

    I think between something like that and a lot of other regulations that are already missing, we could significantly cut down on the rate of deaths by firearms.

  6. #56
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Oh and one more thing. If there is any justification for a self defense situation, i think it makes the most sense for it to be on ones own property. Not saying you can't find yourself in a dangerous situation elsewhere, but I think I can justify in my head keeping a gun at home to defend yourself, more than i can walking around with it to defend yourself.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-06-2013 at 09:56 AM.

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    Around here the places where one can hunt with a gun are very specific ~ I don't know anyone who hunts on their own land......so yes, it would just be another step in the process. Like for us, get in truck, pick up fresh bait/chum at store, pick up rifle, get to boat, get gas, so shark fishing. For my friends who deer hunt, get in camo, get in truck, pick up gun, pick up hoagies, go to whatever place you are hunting at, hunt.

    And I'm not blindly against all gun ownership. I think that people could adequately defend themselves in their home with a non automated gun, is all. A nice revolver. A doubled barreled anything. I'm just anti people having guns that I feel are only fit for soldiers....just because. I think that its crazy. And yes, I think that the whole conceal & carry thing is beyond out of control.

  8. #58
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Around here the places where one can hunt with a gun are very specific ~ I don't know anyone who hunts on their own land......so yes, it would just be another step in the process. Like for us, get in truck, pick up fresh bait/chum at store, pick up rifle, get to boat, get gas, so shark fishing. For my friends who deer hunt, get in camo, get in truck, pick up gun, pick up hoagies, go to whatever place you are hunting at, hunt.

    And I'm not blindly against all gun ownership. I think that people could adequately defend themselves in their home with a non automated gun, is all. A nice revolver. A doubled barreled anything. I'm just anti people having guns that I feel are only fit for soldiers....just because. I think that its crazy. And yes, I think that the whole conceal & carry thing is beyond out of control.
    Okay, so you want strictly semi-automatics in a different location? But ones that are not could still be kept in the house.

    I possibly would be more open to that. I would still like these deposits, to be fairly easy access to anyone who has a gun. If its the government who actually requires your to lock up your own possessions off site, i think they should be accessible in a reasonable drive, including those in rather rural areas.

    Not saying this would be my personal proposed solution...just that as a family, we could work with it if we had to.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-06-2013 at 01:59 PM.

  9. #59
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    And I'm not blindly against all gun ownership. I think that people could adequately defend themselves in their home with a non automated gun, is all. A nice revolver. A doubled barreled anything. I'm just anti people having guns that I feel are only fit for soldiers....just because. I think that its crazy. And yes, I think that the whole conceal & carry thing is beyond out of control.
    So you get to decide what is adequate? Many women like these kinds of guns just because they are easier to handle and easier to shoot, especially if you aren't the best shot. That case recently where a man broke into a woman's house she shot him 5 times and he still was able to run out of the house. What if he had kept coming instead? What if she was scared and not a very good shoot and missed with the first 6 shots? Oops sorry out of luck.



    A woman hiding in her attic with children shot an intruder multiple times before fleeing to safety Friday.

    The incident happened at a home on Henderson Ridge Lane in Loganville around 1 p.m. The woman was working in an upstairs office when she spotted a strange man outside a window, according to Walton County Sheriff Joe Chapman. He said she took her 9-year-old twins to a crawlspace before the man broke in using a crowbar.

    But the man eventually found the family.

    "The perpetrator opens that door. Of course, at that time he's staring at her, her two children and a .38 revolver," Chapman told Channel 2’s Kerry Kavanaugh.

    The woman then shot him five times, but he survived, Chapman said. He said the woman ran out of bullets but threatened to shoot the intruder if he moved.

    "She's standing over him, and she realizes she's fired all six rounds. And the guy's telling her to quit shooting," Chapman said.

    The woman ran to a neighbor's home with her children. The intruder attempted to flee in his car but crashed into a wooded area and collapsed in a nearby driveway, Chapman said.

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local...ntruder/nTm7s/

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    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 05-06-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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    Well no, I'm just a housewife in PA. Of course I don't personally get to decide what is adequate. That is just my opinion ~ I thought that was what we all did here on the debate board ~ share our opinions?

    And Gloria, I am not worried about a man shot 5 times attacking me. I could handle him, at that point. She should have spent more time at the shooting range learning how to use her gun, if she was not a good shot. Do you really think that that is so common ~ intruder shot 6 times then rapes woman and sacks house? I don't. I don't think that you need to shoot 50 bullets into normal people to stop them.

    You avoided this so I'd just like to restate it. Because it truly boggles my mind so much that 30K PLUS deaths per year is okay with you, in fact its a GOOD number to you given the number of guns in america. To me, that is literally twisted and sick thinking.

    I don't understand your hang up on the whole tiny percentage thing. Women getting abortions get them. They have the same result, the baby dies, we agree on that, right? I was simply pointing out that a small percentage of abortions happen at a certain point in a pregnancy. That was and remains to be an accurate statement. Of course 1.03% is a tiny percentage of deaths compared to the number of guns we have. What scares me is that that makes 31,000 deaths ACCEPTABLE to you, versus making the number of guns americans have UNACCEPTABLE to you.
    Last edited by Potter75; 05-06-2013 at 02:35 PM.

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