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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Can you show me in the Bill of Rights where there is a right of the government to know who owns guns that the populous could use to overthrow it?
    That's your reasoning? So the danger isn't in crazy people owning guns, but in the government tracking down people who might want to overthrow it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    That's your reasoning? So the danger isn't in crazy people owning guns, but in the government tracking down people who might want to overthrow it?
    They aren't going to catch the crazy people wanting to buy guns using background checks because most states aren't even submitting the information. We don't need ANY new legislation to do that all they need is for the appropriate information to be put in the database.

    Checking gun buyers for mental illness hinges on states
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddieflounder101 View Post
    That's your reasoning? So the danger isn't in crazy people owning guns, but in the government tracking down people who might want to overthrow it?
    What is my reasoning?... the law... giving government more authority over us... Glad you trust the government to make all these decisions for you.. but I don't. And I dare say you really don't.. It is only in your causes that you want government in or out of decisions. Consider the invasiveness of what you are discussing and transpose it onto something you do not want the government to manage...

    What about the "crazy people" owning hammers... yes I get that you might have heard the stat thrown around... but people do murder with them.. so we register them? At what point is it none of the government's business... you do realize the more business we give the government the more we must pay them right..
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    They aren't going to catch the crazy people wanting to buy guns using background checks because most states aren't even submitting the information. We don't need ANY new legislation to do that all they need is for the appropriate information to be put in the database.

    Checking gun buyers for mental illness hinges on states
    There are other reasons for background checks though, do you not support the background checking we do now? Or do you think we should just do away with all gun purchase background checks.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    What is my reasoning?... the law... giving government more authority over us... Glad you trust the government to make all these decisions for you.. but I don't. And I dare say you really don't.. It is only in your causes that you want government in or out of decisions. Consider the invasiveness of what you are discussing and transpose it onto something you do not want the government to manage...

    What about the "crazy people" owning hammers... yes I get that you might have heard the stat thrown around... but people do murder with them.. so we register them? At what point is it none of the government's business... you do realize the more business we give the government the more we must pay them right..
    I think the comparison to other things that can be used as weapons grows tiresome after a while. You like to throw numbers around like they are important when it comes to "assault weapons" and how many they kill...but for some reason the disparity between hammer deaths and gun deaths is unimportant.
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    There are other reasons for background checks though, do you not support the background checking we do now? Or do you think we should just do away with all gun purchase background checks.
    I really don't have a problem with the current system except that it is kind of pointless because it really doesn't work. The crazy people are going to pass because their name isn't in there anyway, and the people who are planning to use a gun for criminal activity are going to buy a gun on the black market anyway or steal it instead of doing a background check. So who exactly are we keeping guns from?
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    What about the "crazy people" owning hammers... yes I get that you might have heard the stat thrown around... but people do murder with them.. so we register them? At what point is it none of the government's business... you do realize the more business we give the government the more we must pay them right..
    I think i have to just flat out ask...are you simply okay with the amount of gun related deaths there are in the country? I mean maybe thats what it really comes down to...that its just the price we pay for being a gun friendly country and some people just like it that way.

    I was listening to news radio about an entirely different subject, but they were talking about collecting information of people's internet useage and how it could be used to find radicalists/terrorists, but that it could be a violation of the 4th ammendment. They went on to comment that you have to trade in privacy for security, and vice versa, you have to trade in security for privacy sometimes.

    Maybe just a lot of people value their privacy and guns and feel that it is a fair trade for the amount of gun violence there is (because number wise its often pointed out that its 'not much')

    I think I'd like to hear someone just say it straight up though if thats the case. And I'm not accusing...I'm asking.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-07-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I really don't have a problem with the current system except that it is kind of pointless because it really doesn't work. The crazy people are going to pass because their name isn't in there anyway, and the people who are planning to use a gun for criminal activity are going to buy a gun on the black market anyway or steal it instead of doing a background check. So who exactly are we keeping guns from?
    Its not just crazy people though, its people with criminal records...its the things we actually do check for. And i see no point in doing it at all if we give people buying options where you don't need to go through the check. And I mean i get we can't catch every case due to circumstances but why on earth would we not close the loop holes that we can? People do get denied a gun purchase....i would like to see as many people as possible who should be denied a a gun purchase actually be denied. We aren't doing that if we don't support universal background checks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    I think i have to just flat out ask...are you simply okay with the amount of gun related deaths there are in the country? I mean maybe thats what it really comes down to...that its just the price we pay for being a gun friendly country and some people just like it that way.

    I was listening to news radio about an entirely different subject, but they were talking about collecting information of people's internet useage and how it could be used to find radicalists/terrorists, but that it could be a violation of the 4th ammendment. They went on to comment that you have to trade in privacy for security, and vice versa, you have to trade in security for privacy sometimes.

    Maybe just a lot of people value their privacy and guns and feel that it is a fair trade for the amount of gun violence there is (because number wise its often pointed out that its 'not much')

    I think I'd like to hear someone just say it straight up though if thats the case. And I'm not accusing...I'm asking.
    Thank you!!!! I've bolded and asked Gloria this twice now and to no avail. Is 30k plus truly a "good" number to you because it's such a small percentage of guns owned?

    This is where I admit my stereotyping kicks in. Paranoia and wanton disregard for human life are truly hard for me to grasp- and all I hear about is "rights" - I have yet, in probably a thousand posts on the topic, seen a NRA supporter or very pro gun person make any sort of solution or concession that would protect people. So yea- I then lose respect for their stance on the issue.
    Last edited by Potter75; 05-07-2013 at 04:34 PM.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Its not just crazy people though, its people with criminal records...its the things we actually do check for. And i see no point in doing it at all if we give people buying options where you don't need to go through the check. And I mean i get we can't catch every case due to circumstances but why on earth would we not close the loop holes that we can? People do get denied a gun purchase....i would like to see as many people as possible who should be denied a a gun purchase actually be denied. We aren't doing that if we don't support universal background checks.
    Criminals convicted of previous violent crimes should never have access to a gun.. I agree with you there. It is an easy fix.. but not many want to address the real fix. The only ones left buying guns would be previously law abiding citizens.. or those with a non-violent criminal past..I would rather go stricter on the conviction of crimes, and known criminals.. than take rights away from the law abiding ones... Kim--- How many of the violent shootings were committed by someone with no violent criminal past? I am not sure of that number but would like to see it.
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