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Thread: High school ordered to tear down bleachers

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    If this was any other protected group it would be a non- issue...

    Jewish students build a nice area but Christians weren't allowed.
    Black students raised $ for a fancy sports area but wouldn't let white kids use it.

    Yeah that would change real quick.
    I disagree. If a club raised its own money and therefore had more money than another club, I do not believe it would be an issue. For example I know many schools have a student led afterschool group called the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. If the Muslims wanted to ban together and make a student led Muslim group, the amount of money that each group raised for themselves would not effect how much the other group had. It would make no sense at all to take from one group and give to another.

    ~Bonita~

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I disagree. If a club raised its own money and therefore had more money than another club, I do not believe it would be an issue. For example I know many schools have a student led afterschool group called the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. If the Muslims wanted to ban together and make a student led Muslim group, the amount of money that each group raised for themselves would not effect how much the other group had. It would make no sense at all to take from one group and give to another.
    However, the FCA is open to all students. As an afterschool group, it is under different rules than a school-sponsored program (baseball, softball). Nonetheless, they couldn't build an improvement to the school grounds and limit who has access to it.

    Would you be okay with having a black basketball team and a white basketball team? If so, if the black students raised $ for a new, state-of-the-art gym, with jumbotron, surround sound, the works! would you be okay with the school telling parents of the white team, "Too bad! You can't use it because you have your own gym." If the team is not open to everyone, then the facilities need to be equal.

    When it comes to public schools, all students must have equal access. Just like race, religion, and disabilites are protected classes, so is gender.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    If this was any other protected group it would be a non- issue...

    Jewish students build a nice area but Christians weren't allowed.
    Black students raised $ for a fancy sports area but wouldn't let white kids use it.

    Yeah that would change real quick.
    The problem with this comparison though is the standard when it comes to religion, race or whatever else is "separate but equal" does NOT work.

    However when it comes to school sports, we DO separate boys and girls. You are already starting in a place that we would never accept for race or religion.

    I'm torn on this and I think trying to manage Title IX stuff is messy, sticky and never going to end well.

    What about when teams raise money for trips or new uniforms? I've seen kids at the mall do this before. If one group of parents organize a fundraiser to make this happen, but the other group doesn't, are the kids now obligated to not receive the new uniforms? Or go to a tournament?

    Because this bleacher thing to me would indicate yes, they would not be allowed to do this

    I don't know. Sticky business to me.

  4. #34
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    ETA: In my opinion, I think the school should only be obligated to show that a)The Parents organized this themselves and b)the softball team has the ability to do the same thing...organize a fundraiser or whatever

    I think that should be proof of equal treatment. I get that the law doesn't work that way, but I think its wrong that it doesn't.

    AND whoever this complainer is....they really bother me. They would rather spend their time tattling on a group of people who went through the efforts of doing this project on their own, then try to do the same thing themselves.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 03-31-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    The problem with this comparison though is the standard when it comes to religion, race or whatever else is "separate but equal" does NOT work.

    However when it comes to school sports, we DO separate boys and girls. You are already starting in a place that we would never accept for race or religion.

    I'm torn on this and I think trying to manage Title IX stuff is messy, sticky and never going to end well.

    What about when teams raise money for trips or new uniforms? I've seen kids at the mall do this before. If one group of parents organize a fundraiser to make this happen, but the other group doesn't, are the kids now obligated to not receive the new uniforms? Or go to a tournament?

    Because this bleacher thing to me would indicate yes, they would not be allowed to do this

    I don't know. Sticky business to me.
    That's just it though. We wouldn't stand for inequality if this was any other protected class. We shouldn't stand for students being denied access or use of equipment on schools property solely because they are female.

    Ultimately, once it was donated to school, it no longer matters who paid for it. It became school property and thus subject to title 9 requirements.

  6. #36
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    That's just it though. We wouldn't stand for inequality if this was any other protected class. We shouldn't stand for students being denied access or use of equipment on schools property solely because they are female.
    Then the solution would be to not separate boys and girls in team sports as that is the only way to make them 'equal'. THats my point, history has proven that "separate but equal" does NOT work. And Title IX is built aroudn this idea that separate but equal can work. But the truth is, no one wants co-ed everything sports.

    Ultimately, once it was donated to school, it no longer matters who paid for it. It became school property and thus subject to title 9 requirements.
    Like I said, i get thats the way the law works....but i don't agree with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    However, the FCA is open to all students. As an afterschool group, it is under different rules than a school-sponsored program (baseball, softball). Nonetheless, they couldn't build an improvement to the school grounds and limit who has access to it.

    Would you be okay with having a black basketball team and a white basketball team? If so, if the black students raised $ for a new, state-of-the-art gym, with jumbotron, surround sound, the works! would you be okay with the school telling parents of the white team, "Too bad! You can't use it because you have your own gym." If the team is not open to everyone, then the facilities need to be equal.

    When it comes to public schools, all students must have equal access. Just like race, religion, and disabilites are protected classes, so is gender.
    I would never be in support of separate teams for black and white students!

    ~Bonita~

  8. #38
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    And not to sound like a real pessimist (I am one though) but favoritism of boys sports over girls is not going to change from laws like Title IX. Title IX doesn't change cultural views, it simply tries to compensate for cultural views, unsuccessfully in my opinion (like i said separate but equal is not a real possibility!) I'm honestly not sure what the solution is to get people to have as much interest in girls sports as they do boys. But as someone who has 4 girls, i don't think taking stuff away from the boys (especially stuff parents worked to get themselves) accomplishes much of anything. It doesn't make people value women's sports more, it doesn't give anyone more opportunity. It just makes people bitter and angry.
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    In our school dist we have a lot of groups using our schools facilities, like club ball teams. I believe that is how the baseball team was able to get money for their awesome facilities.
    And last night my dad was tellling me that the boys team or the community baseball association (my dad is on the board) had offered in the past to buy nicer bleachers for the softball fields and they asked them to forgo the bleachers, instead asking the association to improve the field quality to make playing in the rain easier.
    Lisa
    Molly, Morgan, Mia and Carson

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    I wonder why the girls team could not just use the same field as the boys team until such a time that the girls team could raise the money for the upgrades? That makes more sense to me than tearing it down if it could be made Handicap accessible.

    ~Bonita~

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