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  1. #141
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    You don't consider injecting someone with something that will kill them to be murder but a birth control pill is?

    That's just....too odd for me.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    You forgot war. Goodnight!
    Not murder either. Self defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    You don't consider injecting someone with something that will kill them to be murder but a birth control pill is?

    That's just....too odd for me.
    One is an innocent life, the other is the penalty someone pays for taking an innocent life.

    By the way, I don't consider a birth control pill murder, as long as it is taken to prevent pregnancy and not to terminate one. I am just defending the right of those who do believe that to be so.
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  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    First I don't think the death penalty is murder. Second for things I don't agree with like taxpayer funded abortion, I don't have a choice on that about where my tax money goes. Which is not the same as a company who has a choice about how to spend their money and choose not to spend it on pills they feel result in murder. There is a difference in my taxpayer funds paying for abortion that I have no choice in and me writing a check to planned parenthood.
    Agreed, hence my discussion about the definition of murder...Most see it as the killing of an innocent person... right? Well some see "innocent" as different, some think murder is the taking of any human life innocent or not.. I already went through the "personhood" senario.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    So what happens with people who inject those for the dp? Killing in war? God thinks that is legit but a birth control pill and the MAP which is not an abortion pill makes these women murderers? Wow. Just wow.
    Have you read Deuteronomy? How about any of I II Samuel? I II Kings? You do realize the God you are invoking is a God who says "Wrath is mine." And laid down harsh sentences for crimes, some we wouldn't even consider crimes today, for "his people" the Isrealites? How about him sending his people to war.... Maybe you are talking about a God that isn't in the Bible?
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    Buy your own or find an employer that wants to cover that stuff as part of your benefits. Don't insist that the Federal Government strip away the right of a large Christian company to not have to pay for something that is against their religious beliefs. Hobby Lobby isn't saying that you can't have birth control or trying to mandate you do anything! They just don't want to commit a sin (and it doesn't matter AT ALL if you don't believe it's a sin). No One Should Try to Make Them. I would bet that most of the employees that are going to lose their jobs (because I don't think these people are going to cave) are going to love the liberals when they have to start filing for unemployment. Way to grow our economy. No health insurance and no paycheck is sooooo much better than paying for Plan B out of your own pocket.
    What about offering benefits to domestic partners?

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    First I don't think the death penalty is murder. Second for things I don't agree with like taxpayer funded abortion, I don't have a choice on that about where my tax money goes. Which is not the same as a company who has a choice about how to spend their money and choose not to spend it on pills they feel result in murder. There is a difference in my taxpayer funds paying for abortion that I have no choice in and me writing a check to planned parenthood.
    Nope. No difference. You comply with the law and pay for abortions and adult murders of innocents and non innocents (though you know in gods eyes we are all the same of course) and justify it by saying its what you have to do. Hobby lobby person can do the exact same thing. It's the law, it's what he has to do. It's so dumb that presumably they are paying taxes that pay for abortions, war, capital punishment etc- and their insurance covers the BCP - but they are waging some sort of uneducated faux holy war over the MAP. It's fascinating.

  7. #147
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Nope. No difference. You comply with the law and pay for abortions and adult murders of innocents and non innocents (though you know in gods eyes we are all the same of course) and justify it by saying its what you have to do. Hobby lobby person can do the exact same thing. It's the law, it's what he has to do. It's so dumb that presumably they are paying taxes that pay for abortions, war, capital punishment etc- and their insurance covers the BCP - but they are waging some sort of uneducated faux holy war over the MAP. It's fascinating.
    Potter I see your point. This is a NEW law though. Do you think it is right that we should have to pay for things that go against our religious beliefs? I think it is ok to refuse, but do understand the power of government and taxation and laws is strong. I do think it may get to the point that more and more are forced to refuse. It is just the ways societies have worked since conception, there tends to be a break down and revolt or revolution of sorts to work things out.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Potter I see your point. This is a NEW law though. Do you think it is right that we should have to pay for things that go against our religious beliefs? I think it is ok to refuse, but do understand the power of government and taxation and laws is strong. I do think it may get to the point that more and more are forced to refuse. It is just the ways societies have worked since conception, there tends to be a break down and revolt or revolution of sorts to work things out.
    Yes, I do think its right. It's part of living in society. We already pay for things we may not like. The world can be an uncomfortable place for all of us- if they are this moral they should not be paying taxes. My point is that they have drawn an arbitrary and irrational line in the sand.


    eta: I believe deeply in God. Just like God extends free will to us And we answer to God (and only God) for the choices we make for ourselves......employers should also extend free will. Their employees choices are not on their soul.
    Last edited by Potter75; 01-13-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Yes, I do think its right. It's part of living in society. We already pay for things we may not like. The world can be an uncomfortable place for all of us- if they are this moral they should not be paying taxes. My point is that they have drawn an arbitrary and irrational line in the sand.
    After the law is passed I understand your point... I do think it is good at this point to show civil disobedience. And before this it was good to fight the laws that are trying to do something one disagrees with. I really do see the similarities. Do you think there would be a law that would cause you to not cross it? Something the government was forcing you to do that you so disagreed with you wouldn't comply? All our lines are "arbitrary". Everyone just has a different one, and sometimes peoples lines are similar and that is what forms up social groups. I do not see it irrational anymore than anyone elses "arbitrary" line. But I do see your point that if they were against abortion so much, and viewed this as abortion why are they paying taxes that also fund abortion. That is a strong argument. I do know of a few people that don't pay taxes for odd reasons most is just because they don't want to give the government any money, which is totally wrong.. they do use the roads and even have children in public school, so even use the most mundane of benefits, so I do think they should pay what is on the tax code... Not sure I have heard of anyone not paying simply because of one issue or a couple issues that go against their morals. Maybe our society hasn't gotten that bad.. To risk the fines if they don't pay because they are pacifist for example... The Amish family I know pay their taxes, but I don't think they vote.. I do know lots of people that do not vote because they don't like anything about the government and that breaks my heart a bit, as their voice can't be heard, I would rather there be a bunch of write ins.

    For me, I try and offset it with political donations to Right to Life for example, and hope that the $100 isn't less than the tax from my portion going to things I disagree with. I think the $100 political donation in my state is a good one, not sure if other states have it. For anyone thinking the government is spending their money where they shouldn't. It takes back just a little of the power..
    Last edited by Rivergallery; 01-13-2013 at 10:42 AM.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #150
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    Im sure that there could be such a law. As it is I break some laws. I've been known to speed and back in the day I was quite unruly. That said I only trouble myself with what is between me and God. For instance, I do believe abortion ends a life. I saw the ultrasounds when pregnant, my babies were quite alive. It's why I would not have one. But I don't extend my moral quibbles onto others. I just ask the same courtesy in return.

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