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  1. #21
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    An employer should not have the right to dictate what their employees do with their personal lives, whether it is outlined at the start of the employment or not. By that logic an employer could say that they will fire any unwed parents and that would be fine as long as they said it at the start of employment. The employer is supporting something against a religious belief in that case too. It is still wrong.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    I was talking about bums, if your family member doesn't fit that bill then I wasn't referring to him. I'm offended by your statement. I have lots of compassion.

    The Jehovah's Witness thing? Yes, if you apply to work for a company that outlines their beliefs, lets you know up front what they are willing to do and not do, and you choose that "compensation package" over another one, then you can purchase your own insurance that will perform the procedures they won't cover because they don't want to be held responsible to a higher power for their actions.


    Does the employer not get any say in what they are paying you? If we follow your logic, then the federal government should be able to set the rates for each position in the same way they set the rates for their own employees. Hobby Lobby is saying that abortion isn't included in their compensation package because it's against their religion. They are responsible to their God before they are responsible to our Government. That is what the founding fathers wanted to ensure would never become an issue. That's why we have that amendment. So that people aren't forced to do things against their religion. Providing abortions is very much against mine whether directly or indirectly. Just like providing cigarettes to dehydrated bums is something I'm morally opposed to. Giving a paycheck is totally separate. The Federal government can take away ANY of my other benefits with a few laws from Congress. They will ALWAYS have to give me a paycheck. Any company can take away benefits, they HAVE to pay their employees.
    Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize you weren't lumping in all those on the street but saying you don't give money to bums. (I'm not going back to the actual wording) I suppose you ask them then....are you a bum or someone who just happens to be on the street right?

    In all your posts on here, I haven't seen much compassion for those that don't live or think like you to be honest. I don't know you IRL but since we can only base it on what we see here I have to say you display a lack of it in your comments. Again, not saying you aren't. You just don't show it in how you word things.
    Potter75, fuchsiasky and blather like this.

  3. #23
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    Because you can use your paycheck to buy the legal medication.
    How is that any different than using their insurance? The employer is still funding it by your logic.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    To me the term bum is offensive in itself. Every person who does fit that bill is also a human being with a reason for the place they have landed in their life. It is compassionate to remember that.
    Oh and this too. I forgot to address the term itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Lillie, I disagree that it's not like a paycheck. My employer refers to my paycheck, my 401K, my stock options, and my insurance as my "compensation package." It's all part of what they pay me to work there. And I maintain that it's up to me what I do with my pay. My employer may have deeply held religious disagreements with drinking, but no one is arguing that it's their right to tell me that I can't buy a case of beer with my paycheck if I want. Their religious objections only apply to themselves, they have nothing to do with me.
    Yes but till now employers do not HAVE to provide anything in the compensation package beyond paying taxes and paying above min wage. NOW they are being told what must be in the compensation package, not just healthcare, but what kind. I don't think Employers should have to have 401Ks, Heath care, or anything above min wage and taking care of the taxes. And I don't much like Min wage either.
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  6. #26
    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    And I don't much like Min wage either.
    Really? You would be ok with employers deciding to pay their employees next to nothing?
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  7. #27
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    Really? You would be ok with employers deciding to pay their employees next to nothing?
    Yup, and the market would decide. If they could get people to work for it great, if not they would go under or raise the pay. Trouble is min wage causes multiple things to happen, the least of these is the devaluing of the dollar and the increase in common goods like milk and bread. The Company still has to make money so if they have to pay people more they have to charge more, so the products cost the lower income earner more and more, and raising min wage makes little sense.
    mom3girls and wlillie like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    How is that any different than using their insurance? The employer is still funding it by your logic.
    So if an employee uses their paycheck to buy crack is their employer providing them with crack? Forcing Hobby Lobby to pay for these pills is just like if they made them pay a drug dealer directly to fund an employee's drug habit.
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  9. #29
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    Yes , of course they should.

    And I don't care what people believe. Some people believe all sorts of wild and crazy things, their belief has no impact on my right to emergency contraception. I don't care that they are not educated on how contraception/the female reproductive system works, that is their problem. It's not my job to educate them, its my job to provide for my own well being, and the well being of my family. At this time, that means me not being pregnant. At this time, that could (and one time did) mean utilizing the morning after pill. I was very grateful for that contraception. Anyone who would call it an "abortion pill" displays their own ignorance, which is their right.

    Gloria, crack is illegal. THe morning pill is not only legal, but legally covered by insurance. What on earth are you talking about?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by wlillie View Post
    Because you can use your paycheck to buy the legal medication. They can't use your belief to get into Heaven. Their payment to the insurance company would be just as harmful to their psyche as it would be for a Muslim to have to buy a ham sandwich for their employee. We make an exception for religious beliefs.

    When you purchase an insurance plan you choose what options to provide for your employees (or used to before this VAST overstep into an illegal and immoral and stupid area) and they either choose to accept it or not. Your choices are based on what you think is valuable and what you think your employees will think is valuable. When you decide that the employees value is more important than the employers religion, you've gone way past the gray area into a zone I'm really surprised anyone would argue about.
    On the same vein as a Muslim employer buying ham for their employees, can Muslim employers ban all food in the workplace during Ramadan?

    California doesn't have very many Hobby Lobby locations. However, CA law requires employers to provide health insurance to domestic partners the same as for spouses. (IOW, if a company offers benefits for both the employee and their spouse, they also have to extend that to a domestic partnership.)

    I am making an assumption here, but does Hobby Lobby feel the same about same-sex marriage as it does about the morning after pill?

    Some medications can increase the risk for miscarriage. Is it then within the realm of the employers' religious rights to restrict access to those medications for pregnant employees? For example, if the employer believes Celebrex can cause a miscarriage, can they cover it when employees aren't pregnant, but not cover it when they are?

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