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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It is if you believe that life begins at conception not implantation.
    It doesn't end a life at conception either!!!!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Ummm at some point someone has to process the claim and pay the bill. It's not like they can do that blindfolded. It may be that only the people whose job it is to pay that sees it, but someone does. Not that it matters. If those pills are on the list of things that are approved to be covered they will be paid for, if they are not then they won't, just like any other claim.
    Yes, which is why they hire someone to process it. Typically an insurer (many of our large groups do this). We process it and pay the claims and tell them they owe X amount of dollars.) If they hire someone internal that is fine too. They still do not get to see what is paid. We set a plan and they pay us when the plan is used. We don't return back to Company R and say..YOO HOO...so and so got THIS. Again, it would break HIPAA to do so.

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    I was only gone for a few hours and I missed several pages. This should be a fun one.

    To me, I think the fundamental difference is who you think the boss is. If you think that some guy can live the American dream and save up some money, come up with a great idea, and build a business that he then owns and runs and is ultimately in charge. That he/she needs to follow a few basic rules of safely and a minimum wage but otherwise runs his own business you would be on one side of the story. If you think that the Federal Government is in charge and needs to have a say in every part of this business owners business including what benefits they have to offer, what they need to pay their employees, and how they should run their business you would be on the other side of this story.

    Whether or not the Morning after pill is abortion or not does not matter. What matters is if the Government has the right to tell a business how to run itself. My personal belief is that it does not. Here there is a local business that is run by Seven Day Adventists. The business is not open from Sundown Friday to Saturday. Any time they donate their product, the organisation has to first agree to not use it during that time. They have a nice convention center. They do not rent it out during their Sabith. Do I think their rules are a little weird? Sure. Do I think they have a right to run their business however they see fit? Yes I do.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Ya all those things are still different than telling someone that they must pay for something that is the equivalent of murder.
    There are prescription drugs that increase the risk for miscarriage. If a doctor and patient discuss the benefits and risks and decide to use them during pregnancy, can an employer get involved in that too?

    All of those things are to help people get well, not to end a life. It would be more like saying the employer had to pay for a shot used to euthanize someone. And those things just give more reasons why the government shouldn't be mandating that employers must pay for healthcare.
    Well...as a taxpayer I have to pay for a shot used to euthanize someone. Guess it doesn't matter that I think the death penalty is murder.

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    To me, the bottom line really really is that if you are paying me something (money or goods or services, doesn't matter what) then that is MINE and not yours, therefore the only person whose religion matters is mine. It doesn't belong to my employer, it belongs to me. It doesn't matter that its not cash - you could pay me with your Grammy's heirloom watch, once that's my pay, it's mine to do with as I like (within the limits of the law.) Employers aren't providing insurance out of the goodness of their hearts, that is part of the pay they give their employees for working there. Thus, like the money in their pay checks, the insurance policies belong -100%- to the employees.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Yes, which is why they hire someone to process it. Typically an insurer (many of our large groups do this). We process it and pay the claims and tell them they owe X amount of dollars.) If they hire someone internal that is fine too. They still do not get to see what is paid. We set a plan and they pay us when the plan is used. We don't return back to Company R and say..YOO HOO...so and so got THIS. Again, it would break HIPAA to do so.
    That is IF they hire a company like yours to process instead of doing it themselves. If they are managing their own program than someone at the company is doing the same job you do.
    Some groups of employers – for instance, some plans that cover union workers - administer the benefits themselves and manage their own provider networks, instead of hiring an outside TPA.
    Insured vs. Self-Insured Plans - FairHealth Educational Site

    This doesn't say if they manage their own program, but it doesn't seem like a stretch that they would do so when they have their own clinic.
    Hobby Lobby Stores Inc. is self-insured, and provides full coverage health insurance to 13,000 of its company’s 21,000 employees. He runs a clinic that provides free health care to insured employees, and reduced cost health services to others. Hobby Lobby also sets its starting pay for full time employees at $11.00 an hour, $3.75 more than the Federal minimum wage.

    All of these items read like a proverbial wish list of “fair working conditions,” the kinds of things that should elicit strong support from liberals.

    But apparently none of this matters any more, for David Green and his family have committed an essentially unpardonable sin in the eyes of liberals: they view morning after pills as simply another form of pharmaceutical abortifacients.* Consequently, the health insurance that his company offers its employees pays for other forms of birth control, but does not pay for morning after pills. (Employees are not “prohibited” from using morning after pills – that would be impossible, of course – but if they use them they must pay for them out of pocket.)

    This runs afoul of the new Federal employer group health insurance coverage mandates issued by the Department of Health and Human Services, which state that all insureds must be offered the full range of birth control and “morning after” contraceptive treatments, with no co-pay, co-insurance, or deductible charges.
    Hobby Lobby Goes ‘Over The Cliff’ | Wizbang
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    To me, the bottom line really really is that if you are paying me something (money or goods or services, doesn't matter what) then that is MINE and not yours, therefore the only person whose religion matters is mine. It doesn't belong to my employer, it belongs to me. It doesn't matter that its not cash - you could pay me with your Grammy's heirloom watch, once that's my pay, it's mine to do with as I like (within the limits of the law.) Employers aren't providing insurance out of the goodness of their hearts, that is part of the pay they give their employees for working there. Thus, like the money in their pay checks, the insurance policies belong -100%- to the employees.
    So then I would ague than that a business should be able to pay their employees money for them to spend however they see fit. If you bought birth control with it that would be up to you. The business should not be forced to provide you with anything other than a wage.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    There are prescription drugs that increase the risk for miscarriage. If a doctor and patient discuss the benefits and risks and decide to use them during pregnancy, can an employer get involved in that too?
    These drugs aren't given for any purpose other than ending a pregnancy. Not the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Well...as a taxpayer I have to pay for a shot used to euthanize someone. Guess it doesn't matter that I think the death penalty is murder.
    Just like my taxpayer dollars are funding abortions right now that I believe are murder. It's still not the same as the prison sending you a bill directly for the shot used for the death penalty and saying you have to pay it no matter what you believe.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    These drugs aren't given for any purpose other than ending a pregnancy. Not the same thing.



    Just like my taxpayer dollars are funding abortions right now that I believe are murder. It's still not the same as the prison sending you a bill directly for the shot used for the death penalty and saying you have to pay it no matter what you believe.
    Gloria, you continue to use incorrect terminology. The MAP does not END a pregnancy, it drug PREVENTS one. Just like the BCP does. Its your right to continue to be incorrect as you please to try to rally people to your side in the debate, just note that whether it is intentional or not, you are not presenting the use of this correctly.

    As to the latter, if it is getting an actual bill in the mail that you are worried about, don't! You won't get a bill directly in the mail for anyones MAP, or abortion, or death at the states hands, or death at the militaries hands. Yet you will and do help pay for EACH thing, every paycheck, via your tax dollars OR through your insurance copays. 2 of the 4 you have no problem with. As they say in institutions of higher learning "tough cookies".
    mommytoMR.FACE likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize you weren't lumping in all those on the street but saying you don't give money to bums. (I'm not going back to the actual wording) I suppose you ask them then....are you a bum or someone who just happens to be on the street right?

    In all your posts on here, I haven't seen much compassion for those that don't live or think like you to be honest. I don't know you IRL but since we can only base it on what we see here I have to say you display a lack of it in your comments. Again, not saying you aren't. You just don't show it in how you word things.
    According to Melissa, you are supposed to apologize.
    You guys amaze me. I said giving money to bums means that the responsibility for what they do with it is theirs. Giving them something that will harm them instead of help them means that part of the responsibility. It is absolutely stupid to assume I don't have compassion; it makes you look like a complete and utter idiot, if you'd just read my posts instead of glancing over them it would help you. Go back and read my post and instead of getting emotional and illogical because you see the word bum (which is a valid word!) try to process the idea I was trying to convey instead. Oh, and BTW- I'm probably the only person I know who doesn't carry cash very often. But I hand it out if anyone asks for it. If someone is raising money on facebook or in the workplace, I donate. If someone "needs" something and doesn't post "via mobile" or I don't know they waste their money and expect others to compensate, I donate. I donated a kidney. I volunteer. A LOT. 10% of my income (don't know what my husbands donations are) go to charity on top of anything we've outgrown that goes to the Catholic goodwill. I have more compassion for those who NEED compassion in my pinky finger than every liberal in the US added up has because when I do things, it is MY money and time being used. So sit up there on your high horse thinking I'm a terrible person and realize that just because I don't think that other people should be forced to pay for others mistakes, doesn't make you better than me. Put your money and time where your mouth is and change the way the world is instead of spouting off a bunch of stupid **** about how it's other people's responsibility to make sure you force other people to change the way the world is.

    Quote Originally Posted by fuchsiasky View Post
    Or people would have to accept crap jobs at almost nothing and they and their families would starve. There will always be someone in the position of having to take the bottom the barrel jobs because there is nothing else.
    That happens now. At least if the federal government didn't have their hand in it, the employee could pay their taxes/get their refund without being worried about losing their job.

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    If my employer does a 401(K) match, can they refuse to allow me to invest in companies that violate their religious beliefs?
    No, but they can refuse to match it.
    They aren't telling their employees what to do and not do. They are saying they won't pay for their decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    To me, the bottom line really really is that if you are paying me something (money or goods or services, doesn't matter what) then that is MINE and not yours, therefore the only person whose religion matters is mine. It doesn't belong to my employer, it belongs to me. It doesn't matter that its not cash - you could pay me with your Grammy's heirloom watch, once that's my pay, it's mine to do with as I like (within the limits of the law.) Employers aren't providing insurance out of the goodness of their hearts, that is part of the pay they give their employees for working there. Thus, like the money in their pay checks, the insurance policies belong -100%- to the employees.
    It isn't. The money they pay you is to you. What you use it for is up to you. When they pay money to an insurance company they are covered under the Constitution as part of their Freedom of Religion to NOT have to pay for something that violates their core beliefs in their religion. The employee can pay for it out of their own pocket with the money paid to you. You cannot say insurance is just like your paycheck. It's not. If it was, your employer would cut a check for your rent/mortgage, car payment (if you have one), childcare, and whatever else was on the list that they'd pay for instead of direct depositing the money. They don't do that (yet, keep voting the way you are US!) so it's not their responsibility for what you are purchasing with that money. They are responsible for what they cut the check for.

    eta-Quit trying to correct people on their terminology and go DO SOMETHING about the people on the street so the term isn't valid anymore. Carry around bottles of water and literally force BUMS to drink it instead of giving them cash. Hand out apples and the address to the local homeless shelter. Ask them if they need a ride there. THEN come back and judge me.
    Last edited by wlillie; 01-12-2013 at 09:54 AM.

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