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  1. #11
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    Everything I have read on the subject has pointed to the fact that Obamacare is not ready. In many areas, not just the website. It makes sense to me to postpone things until all of the kinks are worked out. Not forcing it though before anyone has a chance to repeal it. If it is not ready, then it is not ready.

    ~Bonita~

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Not all of the plans being cut are bad plans. Not all of the people who are being cut have better options available to them.

    Loyal Obama Supporters, Canceled by Obamacare - ProPublica
    Sorry, but I would dispute the claim that theirs was a "solid, reasonable plan." It carries a $4,000 deductible per person, a $40 copay for doctor visits (including preventive care) after the deductible is met, a $150 emergency room visit fee and 30% coinsurance for hospital stays after the deductible is met. The out-of-pocket maximum is $5,600 per person. They could easily be out close to $26,000 if they both get sick or injured. Compare that to the "platinum" plan available through Kaiser under Covered California, I entered their ages & I Googled them to find their own zip code. Yes, they'll pay a much higher premium, $538 per person per month so not quite double, but they will have free preventive care, $25 co-pays for pretty much everything else, no deductible, and a $2500 out-of-pocket maximum per person. How anyone is arguing that this is NOT a better plan than what they had is beyond me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Sorry, but I would dispute the claim that theirs was a "solid, reasonable plan." It carries a $4,000 deductible per person, a $40 copay for doctor visits (including preventive care) after the deductible is met, a $150 emergency room visit fee and 30% coinsurance for hospital stays after the deductible is met. The out-of-pocket maximum is $5,600 per person. They could easily be out close to $26,000 if they both get sick or injured. Compare that to the "platinum" plan available through Kaiser under Covered California, I entered their ages & I Googled them to find their own zip code. Yes, they'll pay a much higher premium, $538 per person per month so not quite double, but they will have free preventive care, $25 co-pays for pretty much everything else, no deductible, and a $2500 out-of-pocket maximum per person. How anyone is arguing that this is NOT a better plan than what they had is beyond me.
    The plan they had is better than the plan that will be offered to me for next year. The plan they had is better than a lot of the plans I have seen with Obamacare. Those kind of deductibles seem to be the standard with Obamacare. Plus, what difference does it make how good the coverage is if you can't pay the premium each month? $538x2 is $1,076 per month or $12,912 per year. That is not affordable care. What you are doing is making the cost so high, that people have no choice but to drop their insurance. People that had insurance before. How is that accomplishing any of your goals?

    ~Bonita~

  4. #14
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    The plan they had is NOT better than any plan offered under ACA. High deductible plans are not allowable under ACA, nor are plans that don't cover preventive care. If you're being offered a high deductible plan without preventive care, then you're being duped. And your premiums won't be eligible for any government credits, either.

    And last time I did the math, $12,912 per year is a lot less than the $26K they might have had to pay under their old plan. People tend to not include the out-of-pocket maximum when calculating whether they can "afford" insurance, which is how so many people end up with high-deductible plans and then high medical bills that they can't afford.
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    When Obamacare Exchanges Launch, Premiums Will Be Low, Deductibles High - Forbes

    "Average deductibles can range from a low of $1,500 to a high of $5,000, according to the Avalere analysis."

    ~Bonita~

  6. #16
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    The plan I showed above, that Mr. Hammack & his wife could purchase from Kaiser in California, doesn't have any deductible. And Mr. Hammack is self-employed so he deduct half of the premium amount as a business expense, thus lowering his taxable base. And perhaps if he's a member of an association, he might be eligible to purchase group health insurance which would probably be lower than buying an individual plan on the exchange. The situation is not nearly as dire as the right wingers are making it out to be.
    David Letterman is retiring. Such great memories of watching him over the past thirty-two years!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Sorry, but I would dispute the claim that theirs was a "solid, reasonable plan." It carries a $4,000 deductible[I]
    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    "Average deductibles can range from a low of $1,500 to a high of $5,000, according to the Avalere analysis."
    If I understand you correctly, you were saying that a $4,000 deductible is not a solid, reasonable plan. However the above quoted article from Forbes said that with Obamacare the average deductibles with Obamacare range from between $1,500 to $5,000. Yes, there are probably plans in California that can be purchased with a lower deductible or no with the plan you found no deductible, but with very high premiums. But the AVERAGE person buying Obamacare will have between a $1,500 and $5,000 deductible.

    ~Bonita~

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    Another story of people being lost in the cracks. Obamacare is broken, and needs to be fixed. I think a delay until the problems can be fixed is reasonable.

    A Stage-4 Gallblader Cancer Survivor Says: I Am One of ObamaCare's Losers - WSJ.com

    ~Bonita~

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    If I understand you correctly, you were saying that a $4,000 deductible is not a solid, reasonable plan. However the above quoted article from Forbes said that with Obamacare the average deductibles with Obamacare range from between $1,500 to $5,000. Yes, there are probably plans in California that can be purchased with a lower deductible or no with the plan you found no deductible, but with very high premiums. But the AVERAGE person buying Obamacare will have between a $1,500 and $5,000 deductible.
    That plan *all together* with the high deductible *and* $5600 OOP *and* no preventive care *and* 30% copay *after* the full deductible is met, all together, *is* not reasonable. And if you read the full report that Forbes quoted, they only looked at information from six states, and I wonder if they may have excluded plans that don't have a deductible. I've pointed out that at least some states are offering plans with much-lower, or even no, deductibles, which would skew the data if they were included. Alas, I closed that window & I'm not going to go looking for it again. And in California, especially in San Francisco, $538 per adult is a pretty reasonable premium for such a good plan as I described I found on the exchange. That couple could go with any different plan -- Kaiser is offering eight of them on the exchange and there are other companies too, offering a variety of plans -- for a lower premium. I just picked the best plan which, obviously, has the highest premium.
    David Letterman is retiring. Such great memories of watching him over the past thirty-two years!

  10. #20
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    4000 deductible per person is insane.

    5000 for a family is a high deductible plan. But it combines medical care and rx's typically. They will be eligible to pursue an HSA which are pretty awesome.

    So say it's an awful year for a family (it's really common). There are 4 of us in mine. For just our physicals we would end up paying 160.00. Not counting sick visits or my daughter's developmental pedi...or the cost of ABA. Now, say all of us have to stay inpatient....it truly does happen...life sucks....that's pushing 80000+ if we're lucky. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't have that hanging around to pay medical bills. That's how people were losing their houses.
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