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Thread: Judge orders adopted baby returned to bio Dad

  1. #21
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Honestly, I actually feel bad for everyone in this case, including the adoptive parents. I don't think that they were trying to steal anyone's kid; they went through an adoption agency and did they everything that they were supposed to do, even if the mother and adoption agency did not. I know that they ignored the fact that he didn't consent, and that is therefore the risk they took, but I still feel sad for them. I can't imagine raising a child for two years, only to have to give her back. I think they are legally in the wrong, but I still feel sympathy for the pain they will have to go through.
    I don't feel sorry for them at all. This child was NOT available for adoption and they KNEW it. They took her anyway, took her away from her father. Seriously, I think some of the other states involved in these cases should sue Utah for continuing to allow this. If the father hasn't consented, then the child isn't available, end of story. Even if you don't think the father would consent to adoption, the answer isn't to hide the baby.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I don't feel sorry for them at all. This child was NOT available for adoption and they KNEW it. They took her anyway, took her away from her father. Seriously, I think some of the other states involved in these cases should sue Utah for continuing to allow this. If the father hasn't consented, then the child isn't available, end of story. Even if you don't think the father would consent to adoption, the answer isn't to hide the baby.
    I don't think it's as cut and dried as that. I blame the adoption agency for ignoring the laws and procedures that they should be very well aware of more so than the adoptive parents. The article said the adoptive mom was telling the adoption agency that the dad had just abandoned her and was not interested in raising the child, which was probably communicated to the adoptive parents. At the time when they adopted, they didn't know that he wanted the child back, they just knew that he hadn't yet consented to the adoption. They probably figured he was just another dead beat dad that didn't care about his responsibilities. Later, they found out that he wanted his daughter back, and they should have given her back, but I can also see how someone would rationalize to themselves "We have been raising her all of this time, he just now shows up, that's not fair to her, et cetera."

    Look, I think they are wrong, and they need to give her back. All I'm saying is, I feel some sympathy for them.
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    I have a question for the military people on here. I was under the impression (based on my experience) that it is impossible to "hide" in the military. If this woman truly felt he abandoned her, couldn't she make a phone call to get the ball rolling? Or go to the base with her dependent ID and tell someone? It just doesn't seem logical that he could get away with abandoning her.

    I was also under the impression that if a member of the military is involved in a court hearing, there are extra steps they had to take. I can't figure out how they would be able to show a long enough paper trial that they attempted to locate him. With today's technology, wouldn't there be facebook, email, cell phones, joint bank accounts, etc.?
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    There are just too many of these cases. I would never give up the fight for my child if someone kidnapped her.

    In 2009 David Goldman was reunited with his then-9YO son after fighting for 5 years.

    This does not have to be as difficult as they are making it. "Too much time has passed" is not a valid argument. There is no statute of limitations for kidnapping in UT. And in reality, they could minimize the time by following the court order.

    I would love for the military or federal government to get involved to see if they violated in other laws.

  5. #25
    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    This was 23 years ago but my niece's bio-dad was in the Air Force. He'd wanted my sister to get an abortion but she didn't. She told him if he didn't want to be a father, that was fine with her but she wanted him to see his daughter before making his decision. He started avoided her, disconnected his phone, even came to her house & peeled off the sticker off her car so she couldn't get on base, quit his off-base second job and stopped hanging out at his usual bar. After the baby was born, my sister called his Commanding Officer, who said bring the baby here on Friday, and the CO had him sitting there in his office.
    Last edited by Spacers; 12-06-2012 at 02:20 PM.
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    Posting Addict SID081108's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I don't feel sorry for them at all. This child was NOT available for adoption and they KNEW it. They took her anyway, took her away from her father. Seriously, I think some of the other states involved in these cases should sue Utah for continuing to allow this. If the father hasn't consented, then the child isn't available, end of story. Even if you don't think the father would consent to adoption, the answer isn't to hide the baby.
    I know someone right now who has a child (just a few weeks old) placed for adoption in their home and they were just informed that the father, who is in prison, will not consent to the adoption and they will have to wait a few months and then have a hearing. Are they to just give the child back? Of course it is different that the father of this child is in prison and OBVIOUSLY can't raise a child right now, but they have no idea if he is contesting because he actually wants the child, or because he is just trying to be beligerant or get back at the mother. The Freis may not have known either. Without having ALL the facts (which of course we don't) we can't know if they knew that the father actually wanted the child when he refused to consent to the adoption. I agree with everything Alissa has said. The child should absolutely be returned, but I do feel sympathy for the adoptive family and I don't see them as kidnappers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SID081108 View Post
    I know someone right now who has a child (just a few weeks old) placed for adoption in their home and they were just informed that the father, who is in prison, will not consent to the adoption and they will have to wait a few months and then have a hearing. Are they to just give the child back? Of course it is different that the father of this child is in prison and OBVIOUSLY can't raise a child right now, but they have no idea if he is contesting because he actually wants the child, or because he is just trying to be beligerant or get back at the mother. The Freis may not have known either. Without having ALL the facts (which of course we don't) we can't know if they knew that the father actually wanted the child when he refused to consent to the adoption. I agree with everything Alissa has said. The child should absolutely be returned, but I do feel sympathy for the adoptive family and I don't see them as kidnappers.
    This man and others who are in similar situations have spent years and large sums of money fighting for their children. This is a huge committment financially and emotionally. This is something that will impact the rest of their lives. I don't believe anyone would go to that length to keep a baby that they didn't really want. Clearly others will go to great lengths to deny these men their rights as evidenced by all of these UT cases. Even if it means breaking the law.

  8. #28
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    I'm sorry your friends are dealing with this, but there's an easy solution. Adoption agencies shouldn't be placing children for adoption that they don't have absolute authority to place. If both parents haven't signed off on it, then the child shouldn't be considered adoptable.
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  9. #29
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    I fully agree that now it is obvious that the man wants the child. I'm saying initially, when they proceeded with the adoption, they may not have known what his intentions were in refusing to sign the papers. Now they are likely attached to the child and acting selfishly out of that attachment. Their judgment is clearly clouded by the fact that THEY want to keep the child, rather than stepping back and viewing what is best for the little girl (they've no doubt convinced themselves that it's best that the baby stay with them).

    What documentary did you watch? I would be interested in seeing it.
    CARRIE and DH 7/14/07
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    This man and others who are in similar situations have spent years and large sums of money fighting for their children. This is a huge committment financially and emotionally. This is something that will impact the rest of their lives. I don't believe anyone would go to that length to keep a baby that they didn't really want. Clearly others will go to great lengths to deny these men their rights as evidenced by all of these UT cases. Even if it means breaking the law.
    It is clear now that he wants to keep the child, but doubtful that was clear when they took that baby home. I do not believe the adoptive family are kidnappers. I believe they are victims that will be in pain for a long time. It is the adoption agency's fault for adopting out a baby without both parents having signed off.

    ~Bonita~

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