Life is Wasted Without Jesus

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Life is Wasted Without Jesus

Is this Hate speech?

For the past six months, a yellow T-shirt with the slogan ?Life is Wasted Without Jesus? has been just another shirt in William Swinimer?s wardrobe.

Lately, the 19-year-old Nova Scotian has worn it every single day since the vice-principal at his high school told him he couldn?t, that it was considered offensive, that it spewed, in his own words, ?hate talk.?

Instead of peeling the shirt off like they wanted him to, Mr. Swinimer continued to wear it ? straight through a series of in-school suspensions and straight through the five-day at-home suspension he?s currently serving.

When he comes back to class at Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin, N.S., on Monday, he plans to wear it again ? even if it means he could be suspended for the rest of the school year.

?I believe this is worth standing up for ? it?s not just standing up for religious rights, it?s standing up for my rights as a Canadian citizen; for freedom of speech, freedom of religion. I don?t think this is right.?

?There was no profane language, there was no drug references, there was nothing inappropriate on [my] shirt?

The Grade 12 student?s act of defiance has shone a light on the balance schools attempt to strike between accommodating all faiths and differing viewpoints while trying to keep the peace.

It has also reignited the debate about whether students should have the right to express their beliefs at school even at risk offending others.

Mr. Swinimer wonders why his shirt has only now become so controversial, especially when he?s seen other students around school wearing T-shirts with slogans like ?Hail Satan.?

?There was no profane language, there was no drug references, there was nothing inappropriate on [my] shirt,? he said.

South Shore Regional School Board superintendant Nancy Pynch-Worthylake said students are indeed allow to express their religious beliefs at school.

?I know it?s out there that somehow we don?t allow religious beliefs in school, which is absolutely false,? she said. ?The only time is when we have students come forward and say ?I really feel this is a criticism of my beliefs? and that?s what happened in this situation.?

The students who complained to the principal took the shirt?s slogan to mean ?Your life is wasted without Jesus,? she said, which could reasonably be construed as a judgment.

Mr. Swiniman said it?s a quote from the Bible book Philippians.

This case was handled the same way schools in the board tend to handle any complaint about T-shirt slogans; complaints about offensive clothing do come up every now and then, Ms. Pynch-Worthylake added.

?Is it obvious that someone would be silly to think it?s offensive? Well no ? we can kind of see both [sides]?

?In meeting with students, we would ask ?Is it blatantly offensive? And in this case it was ?No.? Is it obvious that someone would be silly to think it?s offensive? Well no ? we can kind of see both [sides],? she said. ?And then in meeting and talking with students we would say ?The easy way to deal with this respectfully would be to just wear a different shirt.??

But Mr. Swinimer wasn?t going to wear a different shirt, and defiance ?especially repeated defiance ? is grounds for suspension, Ms. Pynch-Worthylake said.

The school board issued a statement clarifying that ?students may choose to wear clothing that embraces their beliefs. However, it is expected that students will not wear clothing with messages that may offend others? beliefs, race, religion, culture or lifestyle.?

The school board is also consulting a human rights expert to assess whether the shirt can indeed be considered offensive, Ms. Pynch-Worthylake said, adding that she hoped Mr. Swinimer will be back at school as soon as possible.

The Grade 12 student said he continues to wear the shirt because he has been ?bullied? about his faith in the past. Though he?s not usually one to rock the boat, he felt he had to take a stand this time and defend his views.

Varrick Day, who is pastor at Jesus the Good Shepherd Church in Bridgewater, N.S. where Mr. Swinimer and his family worship, said he encouraged the shy student to speak out.

?This is not about the T-shirt ? it?s about our children and our grandchildren having the right of freedom of speech and religion,? he said. ?That?s being taken away in our schools.?

http://life.nationalpost.com/2012/05/03/suspended-nova-scotia-student-defiantly-wears-t-shirt-with-pro-jesus-message/

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I think it's not overtly offensive but it does come off as a judgement and criticism to those who do not have or want Jesus in their life. I think they tried to ask nicely and he's being a turd about it instead of young man. However, if they truly let people wear "Hail Satan" shirts this should be allowed as well.

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I don't find it offensive. He's quoting a bible verse that he believes in without hate speech attached to it. If he had commentary condemning those who don't believe, that would be offensive and inappropriate for school.

Won't all those suspensions jeopardize his graduation?

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He's probably gay.

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Jesus probably thinks that his message of love is wasted on stupid T-shirts like this. I can just picture Jesus up in heaven wearing a T-shirt that says "My Dad sent me to die on the cross and all I got was these stupid kids who wear stupid shirts".

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This means as much to me as someone wearing a shirt that says "Life is wasted without Odin" or "Life is wasted without the Tooth Fairy". it's not offensive. It's just silly.

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I do not understand how it could be considered hate speech at all.

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I believe (at the bible teaches) that we should respect authority. If he was told he can not wear the shirt, the right thing to do is not wear it. That said, there is nothing offensive about that shirt and he would be perfectly fine with going to the school board and expressing his opinion that what they were doing was not right. He would also be with in his rights to go to the media and get a lawyer to make the school see how unfounded the rule was in the first place.

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"JorgieGirl" wrote:

This means as much to me as someone wearing a shirt that says "Life is wasted without Odin" or "Life is wasted without the Tooth Fairy". it's not offensive. It's just silly.

Agreed.

But I also believe a high school principal has the authority to decide what goes in his school.

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Updated news article.

A Nova Scotia teen who was suspended for wearing a T-shirt with the slogan, "Life is wasted without Jesus," will be allowed to return to school wearing his shirt.

William Swinimer, a Grade 12 student at Forest Height Community School in Chester Basin, N.S., was suspended Monday for repeatedly wearing the shirt to class. That decision was reversed on Friday, according to the school board, after the story made international headlines and provincial politicians weighed in with criticism of the suspension.

Swinimer was suspended after being told the shirt did not follow school policy for non-discriminatory expression.

"We are supportive of students right to have religious beliefs in school," board superintendent Nancy Pynch-Worthylake said in an earlier interview.

"The only time we would ever try to change message is when others student interpret the message as a criticism of their beliefs."

Swinimer was suspended because he was "defiant of a reasonable request over principle. Eventually this lead to asking him not to come to school with that shirt," she said.

On Friday, Nova Scotia PC Leader Jamie Baillie called the suspension "heavy-handed."

"The minister of education should note that this student is a Canadian with certain fundamental freedoms," Baillie said in a statement Friday.

"The heavy-handed tactics of the school board have trampled important rights that we all enjoy," Baillie said. "The actions of the appointed school board are far more inappropriate than a slogan on a T-shirt."

The school board said a facilitator will be at the school Monday to talk to students about the case and about expressing beliefs with fellow students.

Swinimer intends to be there, reportedly planning to wear his favourite shirt.

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I'm glad the situation was resolved. I think the punishment was absurd. Just because you don't like what the shirt says or are personally offended by it, does not means it is "hate speech" - it means someone has an opinion different than your own.

And if someone else was truly wearing a "hail Satan" shirt, then the school was completely hypocritical.

If they are so worried about t-shirt slogans, then they should make a "no graphic t-shirt" policy. There is a school around here with a rule like that.

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"kris_w" wrote:

I'm glad the situation was resolved. I think the punishment was absurd. Just because you don't like what the shirt says or are personally offended by it, does not means it is "hate speech" - it means someone has an opinion different than your own.

And if someone else was truly wearing a "hail Satan" shirt, then the school was completely hypocritical.

If they are so worried about t-shirt slogans, then they should make a "no graphic t-shirt" policy. There is a school around here with a rule like that.

Exactly. The schools around here have that policy. Kids are not allowed to wears shirts with rock bands on them or anything. That way there is no question about what is acceptable.

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I don't consider this hate speech and I don't agree with the t-shirt, but I am surely not offended by it.

What's the real difference between this and a WWJD bracelet?

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Further Update:

Nova Scotia teenager who made international headlines after getting suspended from school for wearing a T-shirt with a Christian message showed up early Monday with his parents and quit the school.

William Swinimer, a Grade 12 student at Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin, N.S., was suspended last Monday for repeatedly wearing to class a bright yellow T-shirt with the slogan: "Life is wasted without Jesus."

On Friday, the suspension was reversed and he was expected to resume classes this week, wearing the shirt. The school had planned to hold a special talk about religious freedoms.

But instead, he turned up early with his parents and quit.

"William will no longer be attending this school. He will be furthering his education outside this school," his pastor, Varrick Day, said.

According to district superintendant Nancy Pinch-Worthylake, the move came as a surprise.

"We are very disappointed he is not in school today. We were hoping he would be part of these conversations," she said, referring to the school's planned discussions about the balance between religious freedom and students' rights to not have their beliefs criticized.

Leading up to the suspension, the school's principal had repeatedly asked Swinimer to stop sporting the shirt, which he said was dismissive of other students' beliefs, but the school board said the boy was "defiant."

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I can't say I blame him for leaving the school. Sure, they recanted on their original punishment, but only because of the backlash. I can totally see him not wanting to continue on under their administration.

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I was going to be supportive of this student, but I have changed my mind. It isn't just about a shirt. If it was, then I would think differently. This is what is coming out about the story this morning:

"Students said William Swinimer has been preaching and making them feel uncomfortable, and the shirt was the last straw so they complained.

"He's told kids they'll burn in hell if they don't confess themselves to Jesus," student Riley Gibb-Smith said.

Katelyn Hiltz, student council vice-president, agreed the controversy didn't begin with the T-shirt.

"It started with him preaching his religion to kids and then telling them to go to hell. A lot of kids don't want to deal with this anymore," she said." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/05/07/ns-jesus-shirt-student-school.html

I don't have a problem with him wearing the shirt. I do have a problem with him preaching at school and telling other students that they are going to hell. He should leave his religion at home or he should go to a religious school. This has no place in a public school.

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Also, his dad is up in arms about the discussion forum. He doesn't want discussion of religion in the schools either. If that is the case he should have told his son to leave their religion at home.

"But John Swinimer said he wants Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin, Lunenburg County, to only teach the basic courses, leaving religion out of it.

John Swinimer said his son will not return to school until it gets back to teaching the basics. (CBC)
"He will not attend this school unless they are having reading, writing and arithmetic ? good old-fashioned academics," he said, waving a New Testament bible. "When they're having forums, when they're having other extra-curricular activity, he will not attend that school.""

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

Also, his dad is up in arms about the discussion forum. He doesn't want discussion of religion in the schools either. If that is the case he should have told his son to leave their religion at home.

"But John Swinimer said he wants Forest Heights Community School in Chester Basin, Lunenburg County, to only teach the basic courses, leaving religion out of it.

John Swinimer said his son will not return to school until it gets back to teaching the basics. (CBC)
"He will not attend this school unless they are having reading, writing and arithmetic ? good old-fashioned academics," he said, waving a New Testament bible. "When they're having forums, when they're having other extra-curricular activity, he will not attend that school.""

If your kid had been suspended for something similar and it was ruled they were out of line, would you really want him to attend a course designed by the school and taught by the school on the same subject? It would be like having a driver's ed teacher who failed the driving test.

He should have been suspended for bullying not because the principal was drawing the line on something that doesn't make sense to supsend someone for if the other students are telling the truth. I'd have a fit too if my kid was suspended or disciplined for something like this and I found out that the behavior that really caused the punishment went without being taken care of.

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"wlillie" wrote:

If your kid had been suspended for something similar and it was ruled they were out of line, would you really want him to attend a course designed by the school and taught by the school on the same subject? It would be like having a driver's ed teacher who failed the driving test.

He should have been suspended for bullying not because the principal was drawing the line on something that doesn't make sense to supsend someone for if the other students are telling the truth. I'd have a fit too if my kid was suspended or disciplined for something like this and I found out that the behavior that really caused the punishment went without being taken care of.

I didn't see the seminar as a course designed about the situation, but a forum for discussion about the situation. If my child were involved in something like this I would want them to go to that forum, either to express their beliefs respectfully, or to hear what others have to say. I think that shutting down conversation on an issue can make things worse.

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

I was going to be supportive of this student, but I have changed my mind. It isn't just about a shirt. If it was, then I would think differently. This is what is coming out about the story this morning:

"Students said William Swinimer has been preaching and making them feel uncomfortable, and the shirt was the last straw so they complained.

"He's told kids they'll burn in hell if they don't confess themselves to Jesus," student Riley Gibb-Smith said.

Katelyn Hiltz, student council vice-president, agreed the controversy didn't begin with the T-shirt.

"It started with him preaching his religion to kids and then telling them to go to hell. A lot of kids don't want to deal with this anymore," she said." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/05/07/ns-jesus-shirt-student-school.html

I don't have a problem with him wearing the shirt. I do have a problem with him preaching at school and telling other students that they are going to hell. He should leave his religion at home or he should go to a religious school. This has no place in a public school.

I'm sorry you can't tell people what they can say even if you don't like it. I don't particularly agree with his tactics if that is what he was doing, but you can't tell someone he doesn't have the right to say what he wants just because other people don't want to hear it. They can ignore him or tell him he is stupid or whatever, but you can't tell someone that can't say something just because it might be offensive to someone else. There were plenty of jerks in high school that talked about things that were offensive to me about sex and vulgar things. If I complained about all the things I heard I would have been in the office complaining all the time.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I'm sorry you can't tell people what they can say even if you don't like it. I don't particularly agree with his tactics if that is what he was doing, but you can't tell someone he doesn't have the right to say what he wants just because other people don't want to hear it. They can ignore him or tell him he is stupid or whatever, but you can't tell someone that can't say something just because it might be offensive to someone else. There were plenty of jerks in high school that talked about things that were offensive to me about sex and vulgar things. If I complained about all the things I heard I would have been in the office complaining all the time.

You are right, he does have the right to say what he wants, as long as it doesn't affect others. So he can talk about Jesus all he wants. But as soon as he told the other students that they were going to hell it stopped being ok. Then it becomes a bullying situation, imo. If you had people saying offensive things around you in school and you were very uncomfortable with it you should have complained. There should have been discussion about respectful speech. Because just like religious recruitment has no place in school, neither should discussions about sex.

Would you be ok with an atheist telling your children that their religion is wrong and having the school support them in that? I doubt it.

School is secular. If you want to take your religion to school, go to a religious school. Otherwise, leave it at home.

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

You are right, he does have the right to say what he wants, as long as it doesn't affect others. So he can talk about Jesus all he wants. But as soon as he told the other students that they were going to hell it stopped being ok. Then it becomes a bullying situation, imo. If you had people saying offensive things around you in school and you were very uncomfortable with it you should have complained. There should have been discussion about respectful speech. Because just like religious recruitment has no place in school, neither should discussions about sex.

Would you be ok with an atheist telling your children that their religion is wrong and having the school support them in that? I doubt it.

School is secular. If you want to take your religion to school, go to a religious school. Otherwise, leave it at home.

Wow I have never heard of a high school where kids did not say offensive things to each other, and an athiest kid has just as much a right to express his beliefs as anyone else. If high school kids can't say anything offensive to each other you might have to just say that they aren't allowed to talk to each other. In some schools its almost a sport to see who can say the most offensive thing. As I said, if everyone complained about every offensive thing that is said all the kids would be spending all thier time in the office. Don't think thats going to happen.

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

I didn't see the seminar as a course designed about the situation, but a forum for discussion about the situation. If my child were involved in something like this I would want them to go to that forum, either to express their beliefs respectfully, or to hear what others have to say. I think that shutting down conversation on an issue can make things worse.

I don't know how to say this politely, but that's pretty naive. You really believe that? You honestly would send your kid into the lion's den and hope that the school played nice this time?

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If he has been walking around school, telling kids at random they are going to hell (as opposed to in a discussion/debate where he states he believes non-Christians will go to hell), then that is a problem.

However, it has nothing to do with his shirt.

If that truly was the crux of the issue, than the school totally mismanaged the whole situation.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Wow I have never heard of a high school where kids did not say offensive things to each other, and an athiest kid has just as much a right to express his beliefs as anyone else. If high school kids can't say anything offensive to each other you might have to just say that they aren't allowed to talk to each other. In some schools its almost a sport to see who can say the most offensive thing. As I said, if everyone complained about every offensive thing that is said all the kids would be spending all thier time in the office. Don't think thats going to happen.

Well, just because it happens at every high school doesn't make it right. No one has the right to say something inflammatory. An atheist has a right to say that God doesn't exist. An athiest should not be telling me I'm in idiot for believing in it or that I should be shot for believing in Jesus. As a Christian, I have no right in telling someone else that they are going to hell for not believing.

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"wlillie" wrote:

I don't know how to say this politely, but that's pretty naive. You really believe that? You honestly would send your kid into the lion's den and hope that the school played nice this time?

If my child brought the situation upon themselves by speaking their beliefs openly then I would expect them to deal with consequences like seminars on how to express belief with respect.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Wow I have never heard of a high school where kids did not say offensive things to each other, and an athiest kid has just as much a right to express his beliefs as anyone else. If high school kids can't say anything offensive to each other you might have to just say that they aren't allowed to talk to each other. In some schools its almost a sport to see who can say the most offensive thing. As I said, if everyone complained about every offensive thing that is said all the kids would be spending all thier time in the office. Don't think thats going to happen.

So if an atheist kid tells your child that Jesus didn't exist and the bible is bs and they are fools for believing then you would be fine with that? They are expressing their belief.

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

So if an atheist kid tells your child that Jesus didn't exist and the bible is bs and they are fools for believing then you would be fine with that? They are expressing their belief.

Absolutely. It has already happened.

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"kris_w" wrote:

If he has been walking around school, telling kids at random they are going to hell (as opposed to in a discussion/debate where he states he believes non-Christians will go to hell), then that is a problem.

However, it has nothing to do with his shirt.

If that truly was the crux of the issue, than the school totally mismanaged the whole situation.

From what I understood from the article, the student was doing just that - telling other students outside of class/discussion time that they were going to hell for not believing. That on top of the shirt is too much.

I do agree that the school mismanaged the whole thing.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Absolutely. It has already happened.

Really? I would have a huge problem with that. Everyone should have their beliefs respected. A Christian trying to recruit in schools is wrong. An atheist trying to debunk religion in schools is wrong. It is not the place for it.

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"Jessica1980" wrote:

Well, just because it happens at every high school doesn't make it right. No one has the right to say something inflammatory. An atheist has a right to say that God doesn't exist. An athiest should not be telling me I'm in idiot for believing in it or that I should be shot for believing in Jesus. As a Christian, I have no right in telling someone else that they are going to hell for not believing.

This.

A statement of belief is different than trying to get others to believe too. One is fine. The other has no place in school.

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"Jessica1980" wrote:

Well, just because it happens at every high school doesn't make it right. No one has the right to say something inflammatory. An atheist has a right to say that God doesn't exist. An athiest should not be telling me I'm in idiot for believing in it or that I should be shot for believing in Jesus. As a Christian, I have no right in telling someone else that they are going to hell for not believing.

Actually you do have that right...its called free speech. It may not be polite, but you have the right.

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"fuchsiasky" wrote:

Really? I would have a huge problem with that. Everyone should have their beliefs respected. A Christian trying to recruit in schools is wrong. An atheist trying to debunk religion in schools is wrong. It is not the place for it.

So you think you can protect your high school aged child from everything another child says to them? I guess I just expect my kids to have a little thicker skin and ignore someone who says something ignorant. They have to learn to stand up for themselves sometime.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Actually you do have that right...its called free speech. It may not be polite, but you have the right.

Yes, but free speech doesn't apply everywhere. It doesn't apply in schools where speech needs to fall in line with the policies of the administration. Otherwise the hail satan and white power t-shirts would be just fine.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Actually you do have that right...its called free speech. It may not be polite, but you have the right.

Free speech does not allow you to incite anger in others or cause a riot. Like...I can't yell Fire in a crowded place. I am not protected with use of profanity. My message is protected (for example, God exists) but my method of expressing it isn't always. It also doesn't mean that you have the right for any platform. School is not the platform for relgious prostheltyzing..

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

So you think you can protect your high school aged child from everything another child says to them? I guess I just expect my kids to have a little thicker skin and ignore someone who says something ignorant. They have to learn to stand up for themselves sometime.

I agree, they do have to stand up for themselves. But school is not the place to have that discussion. School is for academics. If you want to have a discussion about religion keep it in an appropriate forum - like church! I don't want my child having to deal with conversion attempts at school. It is inappropriate.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Actually you do have that right...its called free speech. It may not be polite, but you have the right.

Actually, you don't. Not all speech is protected.

Would you have the same position/argument if the teacher said those things? Told your son he was wasting his time by believing in something that doesn't exist? Or worse? "Free speech and all! Suck it up ______ (insert offensive word here)!"

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

So you think you can protect your high school aged child from everything another child says to them? I guess I just expect my kids to have a little thicker skin and ignore someone who says something ignorant. They have to learn to stand up for themselves sometime.

Hmmm....isn't that what many groups of people have been told in the past? "Oh, a Playboy calendar in my cubicle bothers you? You really should stop being so sensitive and have a thicker skin." "Oh, you don't like being called that? You really should have a thicker skin."

It shifts the focus from the person who is offending others to those who are offended when it should be the other way around.

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This is hilarious. You guys think that kids can't tell people their religious beliefs mandate that their awesome God is sending them to hell? Or that other kids can't tell them that those same beliefs are stupid and archaic and backwards? What planet are your kids going to school on?

Are all of your children THAT sensitive that this might upset their delicate religious sensibilities? My goodness.

Jeez.

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"Potter75" wrote:

This is hilarious. You guys think that kids can't tell people their religious beliefs mandate that their awesome God is sending them to hell? Or that other kids can't tell them that those same beliefs are stupid and archaic and backwards? What planet are your kids going to school on?

Are all of your children THAT sensitive that this might upset their delicate religious sensibilities? My goodness.

Jeez.

I don't think anyone ever said that and I don't think you are being very fair. I think it is one thing to have a good discussion and to be prepared. It is another to show up to school and some random fellow student coming up to you and telling you you are going to hell. Or you are an idiot for your belief system. *That* is bullying. That's what is not allowed under freedom of speech.

I don't think anyone ever said that their children are that sensitive. Just that it is not fair to go to school to get pummeled like this. I don't expect it in my workplace either. I don't expect to walk into the office and have the security guard come up to me and say.."I heard you like Jesus....you are a moron".

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"ethanwinfield" wrote:

Actually, you don't. Not all speech is protected.

Would you have the same position/argument if the teacher said those things? Told your son he was wasting his time by believing in something that doesn't exist? Or worse? "Free speech and all! Suck it up ______ (insert offensive word here)!"

A teacher would could say those things if they wanted. They just might not keep their job long. You can't kick a child out of school for saying those same things unless it could be classified as vulgar.

http://breitlinks.com/freespeechpdf/ExpressiveRightsofStudents.pdf

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Free speech is great and all, but I think too many people use it as an excuse to be an @sshole.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

A teacher would could say those things if they wanted. They just might not keep their job long. You can't kick a child out of school for saying those same things unless it could be classified as vulgar.

http://breitlinks.com/freespeechpdf/ExpressiveRightsofStudents.pdf

That link doesn't show much to me. If he did lash out at kids then he is causing disruption at school for one and telling another person, unprovoked, that they are going to hell is vulgar.

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I'm not entirely sure why people who don't believe in God or hell would get so upset at being told someone thinks they are going there.

I couldn't care less if someone told me, say, I wasn't going to get my own celestial kingdom or was going to spend forever in purgatory or was going to be reincarnated as a flea.

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"kris_w" wrote:

I'm not entirely sure why people who don't believe in God or hell would get so upset at being told someone thinks they are going there.

I couldn't care less if someone told me, say, I wasn't going to get my own celestial kingdom or was going to spend forever in purgatory or was going to be reincarnated as a flea.

Same here but I guess if it is constant that's not good and everyone is different. When I was a kid I didn't care what others thought about me. I was never bullied whether technically I may have been or not. Other kids might not have the same defenses.

I don't necessarily think it bothers them that someone is telling them they are not going to Heaven as much as it is disconcerting to arrive at school and be essentially attached and annoyed by someone repeatedly. As I said before, I don't expect to go to work to get lectured on my beliefs from someone else.

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"kris_w" wrote:

I'm not entirely sure why people who don't believe in God or hell would get so upset at being told someone thinks they are going there.

I couldn't care less if someone told me, say, I wasn't going to get my own celestial kingdom or was going to spend forever in purgatory or was going to be reincarnated as a flea.

Honestly it feels disrespectful. I have a right to not be religious and not raise my children religious. I have found that some religious people cannot accept that and need to try and convert me. To me it feels that I am being told that my beliefs lack value. It negates the serious soul searching that I did when I decided to leave organized religion. It just bugs me.

But I am an adult who has taken the time to think all of this through. My daughter is not. And I was discussions about religion to stay within our family. I don't want some child telling her that she is going to hell and scaring her into making a religious choice at an age where she is too young to understand. This is less of an issue for teens obviously. But for the young it can be an issue. If a young christian child were told that Jesus doesn't exist that could be crushing for them. It is the same for a young non-religious child to be told they are going to hell. I feel that those of us of different faiths (or lack of) should leave each other alone and stop trying to convert people.

Sorry, went on a tangent there.

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As much as you might like to, you cannot control what other kids tell your child at school. Its going to happen. If you can't handle that you might should send your kids to a private school where you have more control over what kids they talk to.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

As much as you might like to, you cannot control what other kids tell your child at school. Its going to happen. If you can't handle that you might should send your kids to a private school where you have more control over what kids they talk to.

No I don't have control over everything but I do have control over bullying tactics and harassment just like I do at work. It has nothing to do with private school needs Gloria. Just basic expectations that one can go to school, work and home without being bothered by another's belief system.

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"Jessica1980" wrote:

No I don't have control over everything but I do have control over bullying tactics and harassment just like I do at work. It has nothing to do with private school needs Gloria. Just basic expectations that one can go to school, work and home without being bothered by another's belief system.

Ok good luck with that. A child telling another there is/isn't a God is not harassment. And no matter what you believe there is going to be a child that believes differently and they are going to talk about it.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Ok good luck with that. A child telling another there is/isn't a God is not harassment. And no matter what you believe there is going to be a child that believes differently and they are going to talk about it.

A one time statemenet...no it is not. Everyday at school...it is. Where do you live that it is acceptable to annoy people every day while these people are just trying to live their lives. Certainly is not acceptable here.

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"Jessica1980" wrote:

A one time statemenet...no it is not. Everyday at school...it is. Where do you live that it is acceptable to annoy people every day while these people are just trying to live their lives. Certainly is not acceptable here.

If someone is harrassing someone else it is about harrassment. Not about what is being said.

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