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Thread: Man arrested for holding baby and BB gun

  1. #31
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    The police did. THe Baby Mama did. Most of the posters on this thread do. And without knowing all of the facts I hedged my statement by saying "in what APPEARS to be irresponsible". If you think that this is fine and dandy gun play with babies, we disagree.


    My point was that in all of these debates we have yet to hear a solution that is acceptable to THE "2ND AMENDMENT OR BUST" crew in the gun control debate, or a time where a gun owner is being irresponsible in THEIR view, or a time where a background check should and could be a good thing for all gun sales. THEIR uunwillingness to offer up any solution, but to merely shoot down every single one offered up by others is invalidating THEIR ability to debate this entire issue logically in my mind.
    Last edited by Potter75; 01-29-2013 at 09:29 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftmom View Post
    Maybe he is pointing it in that direction specifically because there was no one in his line of fire.
    .
    Maybe. But in a room full of people like a baby and other children and the photographer the line of fire isn't important to ricochet.

    As a note, steel BBs are also very prone to ricochet, especially off hard surfaces such as brick, concrete or trees. Eye protection is essential when shooting BBs, more so than when shooting lead pellets, since a BB bouncing off a hard surface can retain a very large portion of its initial energy (pellets usually flatten and absorb energy), and could easily cause serious eye damage up to and including blindness.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I will agree with you that it was dangerous and stupid, but I do not see where it is illegal. At what age would it become legal then to have both a child and a gun? I went target practicing with my parents at a young age. I am not sure how old, but I would guess starting at age 5? It would have huge ramifications if you were to say you could not have both a gun and a child out at the same time. While this person did not appear to be carefully holding his gun, I do not believe that you can make the blanket statement that it is illegal to hold both a gun and a child at the same time.
    I didn't say have, I said hold, and I didn't say it was illegal. I said I believe it is dangerous, and so did the mom who reported it and the cop who arrested him. I'd be willing to bet this wasn't a first offense of him doing something with the kid that she thinks is dangerous; most reasonable people don't call the cops on something like this when no one got hurt. I think most people, even exes, would talk about their concerns & hope that it doesn't ever happen again.
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  4. #34
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    Lets not make this debate about individual posters. I don't think it's invalid to point out trends or inconsistencies between debates, but I do feel like focusing solely on "Debater X can't debate this topic logically because....." typically gets us back into the territory of just debating each other's perceived personality flaws instead of debating the topic. It's not productive.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    The police did. THe Baby Mama did. Most of the posters on this thread do. And without knowing all of the facts I hedged my statement by saying "in what APPEARS to be irresponsible". If you think that this is fine and dandy gun play with babies, we disagree.


    My point was that in all of these debates we have yet to hear a solution that is acceptable to Gloria in the gun control debate, or a time where a gun owner is being irresponsible in her view, or a time where a background check should and could be a good thing for all gun sales. Her uunwillingness to offer up any solution, but to merely shoot down every single one offered up by others is invalidating her ability to debate this entire issue logically in my mind.
    He has been arrested, when they thought it was a real gun. He has not yet been prosecuted, and may not be. The ex doesnt really count in my books cause we have no idea what their relationship is like, and may just be looking to stir things up for custody reasons.

    And I dont think it is ever OK to 'play' with a gun around a child. I actually think that is an unfortunate choice of word by this guy. If this happened as he said, he was 'playing with the gun', the daughter was brought to him for a picture, he put the safety on, held the girl and got his picture taken and then she left.....I just cant get worked up about that, doesnt seem like a huge deal to me. Although, as we are just going from his statement and a picture, I did state that I too think it should be investigated to ensure that is ALL that happened. I guess I am just more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they woudnt knowingly endanger their own child.

    I understand what you are saying about Gloria......just dont feel the need to address it.
    Kyla
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Lets not make this debate about individual posters. I don't think it's invalid to point out trends or inconsistencies between debates, but I do feel like focusing solely on "Debater X can't debate this topic logically because....." typically gets us back into the territory of just debating each other's perceived personality flaws instead of debating the topic. It's not productive.

    Sorry. I changed my language to reflect that I am talking about anyone who continually says "the 2nd amendment" in response to any valid question or proposed solution.

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    There are a lot of things that are legal that I think is child endangerment. A lot of people let their young children who are not licensed to drive a car, drive dirt bikes which travel fast and there are often injuries and recently around here a death. I think it is a dangerous parenting move and not one I'm going to allow.

    Holding a baby and holding any type of weapon (and a recognized weapon, gun, machete etc...I'm not going to argue someone's fists or anything silly like that.) is another dangerous parenting move and I would question this father's skills. If it was my ex...you bet I would be speaking to my lawyer.

  8. #38
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    I didn't say have, I said hold, and I didn't say it was illegal. I said I believe it is dangerous, and so did the mom who reported it and the cop who arrested him. I'd be willing to bet this wasn't a first offense of him doing something with the kid that she thinks is dangerous; most reasonable people don't call the cops on something like this when no one got hurt. I think most people, even exes, would talk about their concerns & hope that it doesn't ever happen again.
    We obviously know very different people I have witnessed a number of custody battles where one spouse is willing to say anything against the other to keep their child away from them. Many people try to use the police to their advantage during a separation.
    Kyla
    Mom to Arianna (5), Conner (3) and Trent (my baby)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftmom View Post
    We obviously know very different people I have witnessed a number of custody battles where one spouse is willing to say anything against the other to keep their child away from them. Many people try to use the police to their advantage during a separation.

    I totally agree. I have three friends who have divorced with young children. If a photo like this popped up on FB you can be darn sure that this is entering into case law as we work out the terms of time sharing/visitation etc etc .

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I totally agree. I have three friends who have divorced with young children. If a photo like this popped up on FB you can be darn sure that this is entering into case law as we work out the terms of time sharing/visitation etc etc .
    And from my understanding of this debate, it would be because you have a genuine concern about what is happening in the picture. My point was, that if I was to report a picture like this of my ex and our child and I didnt already have concerns about him having guns around them, it wouldnt be due to being concerned about the picture, but because of other issues we may be having.

    I like to belive I am not that person, but I know a lot of people who have gone through nasty custody stuff, from the cops being called because the other person wouldnt exchange the kids at 4am, to lies being told in court, facebook pages being scanned for anything incriminating, CPS being called, to a friend of mine who has actually lost his daughter because after the court appointed him joint custody, his ex took the baby and left the country. That was 6 years ago, and he is still struggling to track her down. In some cases it is jealousy the other person has moved on, mental health issues, and in the case where the baby was kidnapped, his refusal to marry the mother.

    My point is that there are a lot of different issues in relationships, especially ones that have ended, but the couple is still forced together by a child. Because of that I cant take the mothers concern about this picture as an indication that there have been previous issues with the childs safety.
    Kyla
    Mom to Arianna (5), Conner (3) and Trent (my baby)

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