Marissa Mayer says no more telecommuting for Yahoo employees - Page 4
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Thread: Marissa Mayer says no more telecommuting for Yahoo employees

  1. #31
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Yeah. At the end of the day I guess I've really said all I can say on this one and my mind isn't open to being changed, so I guess I've come to the end of what I can say I do think that its BS that a woman is held to a different standard, and that judgments are being made about how or why she succeeded (for instance, I don't think that her maternity is anyones business, and I'm not willing to relegate her success to this "mans world" business.) I think that she got to where she is by being smart, tenacious, innovative and hard working. I think that its sad that that isn't enough, because she has a vagina.
    I'm not holding her to a different standard. I would say its a bad decision no matter who made it. If you don't want me to acknowledge that its unfortunate for someone to put roadblocks in front of their own group of people...i can't do that. Why is it objectionable to note that? I think that is a very natural reaction. For example if someone IN my family did something to hurt my family....that feels more objectionable than if someone outside my family did so. Both would be wrong, but one would sting more than the other.

    As for her success, of course she has to be smart tenacious innovative and hard working to become a CEO. But I also think its fair to acknowledge that a lot of the time that isn't enough when you are a woman. I'm simply pointing out that she probably had to sacrifice some things in her life that men don't typically consider or feel pressured to consider to the extent women do. I think the maternity leave thing demonstrates that. And thats fine if thats what she wants to do, but you know...maybe her career path has given her a perspective on the life work balance issue that lots of people just don't share. I could see in her position that it would seem pretty clear that if you want to be successful, you should just have to give those things up. And if thats the case, then work/life balance isn't going to be important to her and she won't see the value in helping her employees with it either.

    She is also held to a standard of being some world changer.
    Not a world changer, thats an exaggeration. But I think a lot of women have a desire to see a woman who actually has some hefty influence help further women's success. People would like to think, if anything could help a disadvantage group...it would be getting more of those in that group in influential places. Would you not think that? So when you see an opportunity of that nature and feel like its actually the opposite thats happening...why should people not talk about it? Its discouraging, i think people are allowed to feel discouraged.

    Personally I think that all the faux outrage and meaning seeking in this is more than a little silly, unless of course one works for Yahoo or is personally affected by this.
    Maybe you feel its faux, but i certainly don't. I see work life balance as an issue that affects me, i see the disadvantages that face women in the workplace as an issue that affects me...and i see this decision affecting both of those things, therefore its important to me. I'm a working woman, and the larger bread winner in my dual income family. Should other groups that face obstacles only raise their voices when they are the ones being directly affected? I don't think so.

    I actually find it frustrating to think that someone wouldn't think this is disappointing simply because they aren't the ones directly affected.
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  2. #32
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    I just deeply disagree with you that this is a decision which impacts women more than men and I disagree with you- you clearly ARE holding her to a different standard because of her gender.

  3. #33
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I just deeply disagree with you that this is a decision which impacts women more than men and I disagree with you- you clearly ARE holding her to a different standard because of her gender.
    I don't see how you could argue that the availability of work at home/flex schedule jobs doesn't affect women more than men...if you actually take into consideration what the real world is like, and what pressures women face compared to men. Not an ideal world...the real world.

    And fine if you want to get technical, i'm holding her to a different standard in that it does disappoint me more. But the main thing...whether i view it as a good decision or a bad decision would be the same whether she had a vagina or not.

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    Because I view a family as a whole, because I don't think that mothers are more responsible for their children than fathers are, and because the argument tha women like to telecommute because they get more time with their children is equally true of men. And frankly I don't think that a CEO trying to turn her company around is focused on letting her employees "have it all" like attending that soccer game or driving kids around during the work day. She is saying that we as a company need to refocus on our company- based on internal statistics that show weakness in the telecommuting arena- and it's her right to do so.
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  5. #35
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Because I view a family as a whole, because I don't think that mothers are more responsible for their children than fathers are,
    And you feel that your view reflects society as a whole today? We've acheived equality in that regard?

    and because the argument that women like to telecommute because they get more time with their children is equally true of men.
    My argument is NOT that women like it more than men or enjoy spending time with their kids more than men. My argument is that women are still pressured more than men to make work and career sacrifices for their family.

    And frankly I don't think that a CEO trying to turn her company around is focused on letting her employees "have it all" like attending that soccer game or driving kids around during the work day. She is saying that we as a company need to refocus on our company- based on internal statistics that show weakness in the telecommuting arena- and it's her right to do so.
    I think employee satisfaction should always be a consideration because it benefits your company. And like I said, if the choices are "No telecommuting or go bankrupt" then obviously there is only one choice. I'm saying I believe there were more choices than that. You can overhaul your telecommuting policies without removing them completely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I just wanted to say too that I don't think anyone is arguing that everyone should work from home or work on their blackberries all day and all night. Personally, that is an environment that works very well for me and thusfar (have been doing it for about 6 years) I haven't really dealt with burnout because, again, the flexibility that I get in return allows me to make a schedule that works for me and I love that. But if it doesn't work for someone else, that's fine too. We don't all have to be the same. I just think that when feasible, it's better that companies offer the choice. Obviously it won't be feasible in many jobs. But in jobs where it is feasible and was previously offered, I think it's a bad move to take it away. Some of us love it enough to gratefully work longer hours for less pay just to have the choice, so keeping that choice for those of us who feel that way seems like a win win to me.
    I am not saying working from home is not a wonderful option for some people. I am saying Yahoo is not a bad company if they chose to not offer that option. I am not going to run out and boycott Yahoo because they make a decision to have all of their employees work from an office.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    I am not saying working from home is not a wonderful option for some people. I am saying Yahoo is not a bad company if they chose to not offer that option. I am not going to run out and boycott Yahoo because they make a decision to have all of their employees work from an office.
    I'm not going to boycott them either. *shrug*

    One can think something is a bad decision without thinking its the end of the world or rooted in pure evil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    And you feel that your view reflects society as a whole today? We've acheived equality in that regard?



    My argument is NOT that women like it more than men or enjoy spending time with their kids more than men. My argument is that women are still pressured more than men to make work and career sacrifices for their family.



    I think employee satisfaction should always be a consideration because it benefits your company. And like I said, if the choices are "No telecommuting or go bankrupt" then obviously there is only one choice. I'm saying I believe there were more choices than that. You can overhaul your telecommuting policies without removing them completely.
    i can only speak for my family and my friends- but yes- at least in my little bubble- absolutely. For us my decision to stay home was easy ~ I wanted to, I had enjoyed my career but we both worked 50+ hours/week and I wasn't willing to put my kids in daycare that much, and we could afford it. I guess I don't know what you mean when you speak of equality in that regard. That is a decision between husband and wife- not society. Families have the choice what to pay on a house, where to live, what to prioritize, how to set up their work situation. Maybe I don't know what you mean. If women are pressured more than men to make these decisions you speak of, I blame their husband or the balance of power in their marriage., not society.

    -as to the last bit- perhaps this is a temporary thing. Perhaps it's not. I do agree that employee satisfaction and feeling valued are not only important, but integral. I also don't discount the validity of short term discomfort or change for long term success. I've never argued that this is for sure a great thing- I've acknowledged that its a risk and that they may lose talent. I also believe that is may make a positive change to their company.
    Last edited by Potter75; 03-04-2013 at 04:59 PM.

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    So, it recently came out that she built a nursery off of her office for her new baby..something that I'm sure the other employees do not have access to. How do you reconcile that with telling people who took a flex telecommuting job that you have to come in the office?

    Melis~I know what Kim is saying. My husband and I are 50/50 most of the time. He is home with the girls, on his own, 2 days a week and has been since I returned from maternity leave with Elizabeth. For me, the expectation is from outsiders or society if you will. Her school, our parents etc. because that was the norm for most people. Mom comes to pick them up when sick, mom comes to the school for activities (she had a school thing yesterday....no dads just moms). I don't get heck at work if I have to take a day to stay home with a sick kid but he'll hear it at his office. Is it fair..nope. Is it stupid...yep but it's still there. I do believe it is changing but we're not there yet. I think she has too many perks as the CEO to fully understand what she is making people give up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    So, it recently came out that she built a nursery off of her office for her new baby..something that I'm sure the other employees do not have access to. How do you reconcile that with telling people who took a flex telecommuting job that you have to come in the office?

    Melis~I know what Kim is saying. My husband and I are 50/50 most of the time. He is home with the girls, on his own, 2 days a week and has been since I returned from maternity leave with Elizabeth. For me, the expectation is from outsiders or society if you will. Her school, our parents etc. because that was the norm for most people. Mom comes to pick them up when sick, mom comes to the school for activities (she had a school thing yesterday....no dads just moms). I don't get heck at work if I have to take a day to stay home with a sick kid but he'll hear it at his office. Is it fair..nope. Is it stupid...yep but it's still there. I do believe it is changing but we're not there yet. I think she has too many perks as the CEO to fully understand what she is making people give up.
    Those people presumably already have their children in school or daycare, so I don't understand why her having a nursery built has anything to do with other workers? If the other workers are trying to work full time remotely and care for their children at home at the same time I see her point! I guess my husbands company is just different. When he had to take off because of my broken hip, or because of our recent issues with our baby it was no problem. Our preschool has equal Mom events and Dad events (for instance, next week they have Daddy night at school where the kids and Dad go to school and they have fun events/Dad centered things, which they don't do with Moms, but they do have a mothers day tea.) One of my best friends is divorced and they have joint custody of their three kids 10 and under. They trade off by week. While she USED to be the one to do everything (pick up a sick kid etc) he now does it on the weeks that he has the children. That is a choice ~ who goes. Men and women work in the same industries ~ it is silly to believe that a Man can't, as a general rule, take a day off to care for a sick child or leave the office to pick up a sick child. They can if women can! Its a choice.

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