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Thread: Marissa Mayer says no more telecommuting for Yahoo employees

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftmom View Post
    Not sure how I am supposed to 'learn from what is lacking' and change the resource situation in my town.
    Sorry shouldn't post from the stair machine It is, however, amazing distraction, especially as the book I'm reading is hard to get into.

    Anyway. If you only live in towns where no one wants to babysit that is difficult. If you move so frequently yes that is a challenge to really tap into local resources in a meaningful way. I'm presuming (and correct me i you are wrong and you do it for a sick parent or something) that you both live in the towns that you do and you move so frequently for reasons that better your families quality of life? If you make those choices than I'm presuming that you also accept the challenges that they present?

    Thats all I'm asking of anyone. Want to take a job with little flexibility or work while sick? Okay. Accept the responsibility for your choice. Want to have zero "alternative child care arrangements"? Okay. Accept the responsibility of your choice and take your day off (being paid to be off is a luxury in many countries! I miss it!) . I called off an engagement because after looking at the realities of it I was terrified to move to a new city to take on a marriage where we wanted kids relatively soon with NO family help and me having no friends and working from home/not making friends easily through work. In retrospect it was the best decision I ever made. He ended up moving here, we have his parents 1:30 away, my parents very close by, and sibling support all over the area. This area also offers a slightly lower cost of living from where he was and no traffic, so a better quality of life. Now we have a bevy or resources. I had seen people have children without help and it didn't look like fun to me. When my husband decided to go to Grad school I was terrified. I said that the only way our family could survive it would be if I had extra help, even if it meant adding on to his school loan. I knew I would be bitter and resentful being essentially a single parent with kids so young. Everyone might not, but I would have, so we added a weekly sitter to our routine and we have made it through school. I don't blame Marissa Miller when I have the flu and still care for the kids and my husband is out of town. I don't think that she has set back my life work balance. I think that its exactly the way I chose it to be.

    I also acknowledge that I am lucky. We live like 1 mile from an amazing childcare/gym/pools/etc set up ~ Its like a mecca for families. I recognize that as an amazing resource, which we purposely sought to buy near. I'm also lucky that calling off the engagement worked out. I'm not saying that everyone has to make drastic decisions like that. Just that yes, I'm partly lucky for sure, but its not all luck.
    Last edited by Potter75; 03-07-2013 at 04:23 PM.

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    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Sorry shouldn't post from the stair machine It is, however, amazing distraction, especially as the book I'm reading is hard to get into.

    Anyway. If you only live in towns where no one wants to babysit that is difficult. If you move so frequently yes that is a challenge to really tap into local resources in a meaningful way. I'm presuming (and correct me i you are wrong and you do it for a sick parent or something) that you both live in the towns that you do and you move so frequently for reasons that better your families quality of life? If you make those choices than I'm presuming that you also accept the challenges that they present?

    Thats all I'm asking of anyone. Want to take a job with little flexibility or work while sick? Okay. Accept the responsibility for your choice. Want to have zero "alternative child care arrangements"? Okay. Accept the responsibility of your choice and take your day off (being paid to be off is a luxury in many countries! I miss it!) . I called off an engagement because after looking at the realities of it I was terrified to move to a new city to take on a marriage where we wanted kids relatively soon with NO family help and me having no friends and working from home/not making friends easily through work. In retrospect it was the best decision I ever made. He ended up moving here, we have his parents 1:30 away, my parents very close by, and sibling support all over the area. This area also offers a slightly lower cost of living from where he was and no traffic, so a better quality of life. Now we have a bevy or resources. I had seen people have children without help and it didn't look like fun to me. When my husband decided to go to Grad school I was terrified. I said that the only way our family could survive it would be if I had extra help, even if it meant adding on to his school loan. I knew I would be bitter and resentful being essentially a single parent with kids so young. Everyone might not, but I would have, so we added a weekly sitter to our routine and we have made it through school. I don't blame Marissa Miller when I have the flu and still care for the kids and my husband is out of town. I don't think that she has set back my life work balance. I think that its exactly the way I chose it to be.

    I also acknowledge that I am lucky. We live like 1 mile from an amazing childcare/gym/pools/etc set up ~ Its like a mecca for families. I recognize that as an amazing resource, which we purposely sought to buy near. I'm also lucky that calling off the engagement worked out. I'm not saying that everyone has to make drastic decisions like that. Just that yes, I'm partly lucky for sure, but its not all luck.
    In my personal situation, no. I never chose to live in this town. My husband chose a job, which has forced us to adapt to wherever we are sent.
    I dont believe that people always choose the way that they live, sometimes it is the only real option that enables them to feed their family. An example, from my own life. Awhile ago my husband accepted a change of position to a specialized unit. The unit didnt exist when he got the job, so he was the first to fill it. It was billed to us as a more family friendly option, more regular schedule, weekends off, etc. He completed his training after about 6 months and we quickly learned that what we had been told was untrue. He was working more overtime, home less etc, but it was only a 1 year contract, so we figured we could ride it out. However, during that time he lost his hearing in one ear due to a virus. This loss of hearing means that the only job in his detachment that he is eligible to work. He is held at his detachment for 5 years without chance of transfer. In the 3 years since he started this job his partner has gone back to the watch and no one else will take the position because they see what we go through. This means that he is now doing the job of 2 people, a job that was already more than expected. He now regularly works till 7-8 at night to keep up with the paperwork, as well as giving up a day of his weekend. He does this because he needs the good reference for transfer. We have now been eligible for transfer for a few months. However, the RCMP is not authorizing many transfers right now and the one we were 'almost' offered, was not offered after his boss requested that they not move him, because they have no one to do his job. We are very frustrated. This is not what we wanted for our family, or how we wanted to raise our kids. We are doing our best to get out of this spot, but with the economy the way it is, we cant afford for him to quit his job, especially with his disability.

    The point of that long convoluted story about my own life, is that sometimes things happen that people are not expecting, and are not prepared for. Our choices aren't always what we think they are, and often we are stuck with them. We dont all have the luxury of choosing a new job, or moving to a different area. I am not complaining or whining about my own situation, we do the best that we can with it, but I think that there are a lot of people who are stuck like we are, especially with the economy the way it is. Think of all those yahoo employees who maybe even chose their jobs specifically because they could telecommute, and now are forced to come into the office or quit. If they cant get another job, is quitting really a choice? Sometimes you have to sacrifice your work life balance to feed your family, and you just do the best you can with everything else.

    I think it is naive to believe that everyone has all the options and resources that you do and that they are 100% responsible for their lack of options. I think that the way our society perceives work, and mothering, has huge impact on what options are available and a huge company taking away some of those options doesnt help that in any way.
    Kyla
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    And I think that its naive to believe that other people are responsible to create the lives we want for ourselves. Marissa Miller doesn't owe anyone anything more than anyone else does just because she is a woman.

    Yes, things happen. And having no or very limited options simply means that when they happen you and your family are more at risk. Every family decides what risk is acceptable for themselves when they decide to have the family they have.

    You can continue to talk about my resources and options as though the decisions I/we made were pure luck, but it is incorrect. Thats all

    I'm sorry for your circumstances and I sincerely hope that the move is approved soon
    Last edited by Potter75; 03-07-2013 at 05:29 PM.

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    People do what they can.

    I didn't have kids until I was in my late 30s, and at that point I had built up a career and had a senior position. I was able to talk to my company about leaving at a certain time every day so I'd always be home in the evenings with my kids, and I made that a negotiating point for the job I took after that (which is the job I have now). I've been very lucky. The person who hired me isn't at the company anymore so if my current boss decides to change those terms, I have a pretty big decision to make.

    It's all part of the same thing. If I were in my 20s when I had my son I would not have been in a position to make the same deal.

    Now I am lucky that I work at a company that supports work-life balance, so when my kids are sick, I either work from home or take a sick day, if I can't get a sitter. (Sometimes I can.) But I moved away from most of my family when I was 21 so there aren't many of them around. My dad lives nearby but is away much of the time. My mother-in-law works full time, my father-in-law is ill.

    So there are areas that work for me, and areas that don't. I think there are things you can do to try to have back-up, and sometimes you're just SOOL. At this stage of my life, I would not work for a company that gave me a hard time about looking after a sick child. If I were a single parent, my choices would be more limited, I suspect.
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    I waited too Laurie. I do think that that makes a big (huge) difference in options.

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    I also think that most companies are more understanding than you think. They don't want to give unlimited paid days off, but they are run by humans, who will let you use your sick days or vacation days or just have you take an unpaid day. I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd be told that I couldn't leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    And I think that its naive to believe that other people are responsible to create the lives we want for ourselves. Marissa Miller doesn't owe anyone anything more than anyone else does just because she is a woman.

    Yes, things happen. And having no or very limited options simply means that when they happen you and your family are more at risk. Every family decides what risk is acceptable for themselves when they decide to have the family they have.

    You can continue to talk about my resources and options as though the decisions I/we made were pure luck, but it is incorrect. Thats all

    I'm sorry for your circumstances and I sincerely hope that the move is approved soon
    I dont think that she is responsible at all for anyone's life but her own, or owes anyone anything. I just think that it is a crappy move I disprove of it. I can do that without having feelings about her personally.

    I agree that we are responsible for our own lives, but the reality is, there are only so many work at home, family friendly jobs out there. Someone has to fill the other positions. I simply feel that taking away some of these jobs is not a good move for society or anybodies work life balance.

    I actually dont think that your choices were pure luck. You chose the best of the options you had and it sounds like you have built yourself a great life. You even said you chose one place over the other and you love your choice. I just feel that a)not everybody has the same choices to begin with, so even if you choose the best one its not always perfect, and b)if you choose the wrong local or the wrong job etc, its not fair to just say 'you made your bed, now lay in it'. We can have every intention of doing what is best for us and our family, and have it backfire, as it is for those at yahoo, and although there is nothing I can do for them, I do feel for them acutely. I just think that we should treat people better than that.
    Kyla
    Mom to Arianna (5), Conner (3) and Trent (my baby)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Yeah, there is probably no agreeing on this one To me its about accountability and blame. But its okay to disagree. I know that I made my experience in the workforce, and then my decision to exit it, and now we make my husbands job work for us in a manner in which I don't complain about or blame anyone else for. And that may not be everyones goal. As stated in another thread, some people like to complain about everything! (And I dont' mean you, I mean people who would take jobs that don't offer what they need, who don't find alternative childcare so they don't have to send a sick child to school, or people who won't advocate for themselves yet expect strangers to do so). I agree that pushing yourself hard is good ~ But then again, I thought you criticized Miller for doing so early on in the thread when you said she succeeded by playing the mans game to get where she did?

    Anyway, I'm probably tapped out on this one.
    Oh how I wish I lived in that perfect world that offered the perfect job that has everything, including my fantastic salary and the work flexibility my heart desires. Unfortunately, not out there right now. And I love my job for other reasons, as Kim so perfectly mentioned. So yes, I do make the choice to stay here vs. nothing (not vs. another job that HAS the flexibility, because it's not out there right now at what my company is willing to pay me and not vs staying home because that is not an option). And I do maintain that any company that moves backward in their telecommuting/flex scheduling policies as a whole, rather than managing their problem people, sets the work life balance movement back a few steps from the direction it was heading, and the direction it was heading was the right direction. The direction in which people don't have to desperately try to figure out which parent is staying home with the sick child today and who is least likely to get on the boss' bad side or even lose their job if they call in YET AGAIN. Because in other realities besides yours, those are the types of decisions that people are having to make.
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    I wish that for you as well, and hope that some day you get the reality you want. I understand that my reality is not everyones ~ nor is yours. I wouldn't call the results of your decisions bad, any more than I will accept someone reducing mine to "lucky" or not real or valid, as I live it everyday .

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    Just to sum up a few random things....

    1)I think its really hard for me to gauge but in my line of work, I have always found a decent amount of flexibility. I think they feel they need to offer it in return for the intense project schedules or people would be miserable.

    2)Melis, i just want to say that i definitely don't think you have only experienced luck. I think people's lives are a direct effect of what they choose to do, mixed with luck of the good and/or bad kind.

    3)I don't hold Mayer responsible for all the trials and tribulations working women go through. That would be pretty dramatic of me and a definite over exaggeration. So if that's what anyone is taking from what I say, please don't, i Promise thats not what i mean.

    4)I don't really see what my own or someone else's personal life choices have to do with this one decision by Mayer. Its really easy to examine someone elses life and say "well you should have done this, or should have done that if you wanted your life to be less stressful" Really you could justify taking away any fringe benefit of a work place based on that logic. "Well if you wanted something like that, you should have done your life differently"

    I'm simply saying this one thing is a big help to families, especially women (but just ignore that if its too much of a point of contention), some people do it well, and it disappointments to see a company take it away from everyone because they don't want to just deal with the ones that do it badly by taking the privilege away from them specifically or firing them. So i feel bad for those employees, and I feel bad for any employees who lose their privilege if their company follows suit.

    I didn't choose to be a stay at home mom, i didn't choose to wait until my late 30s to have my kids, i didn't choose to live in a place where I'd have tons of help (I have a medium amount of help living near Seamus' family), i sort of chose how many friends i have, i've never wanted a ton of friends, but consequentially i have that many less people to 'help me out'...but all of that worked for me and was chosen or happened for a reason. I don't see how any of those choices mean that i shouldn't feel it were wrong if my privilege of working at home were taken away from me, or that its wrong for some other reliable employee somewhere else to not have that option, due to a brash executive decision to 'shake things up'. A company being mindful of work life balance has nothing to do with the decisions that lead their employees to where they are. And i respect businesses and corporations more if they demonstrate a mindfulness of that and provide the options they can. I get that some people believe that this was her only choice, i don't.

    For now, as a pretty friggin productive at home employee, i sure hope that my company never decides to take away my privilege because some other guy doesn't know how to do it...and if they ever did, I would think it was a bad decision. And my CEO is a male.

    And I think I too am spent.

    ETA: Who am i really kidding. I don't have the ability to stop posting on any thread LOL
    Last edited by KimPossible; 03-07-2013 at 08:06 PM.

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