Mass shootings... Guns ..... Or Drugs? - Page 3
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Thread: Mass shootings... Guns ..... Or Drugs?

  1. #21
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    I guess I don't understand why it has to be an either/or scenario. EITHER we have too many extremely destructive guns in this country, OR it's an issue with the mentally ill and prescription drugs. I just don't see it that way.

    I am ALL for a conversation about creating a stronger support system and stronger resources around mental health issues in this country, and for making it affordable and easy to access for everyone in this country. Absolutely. I agree that we have way too many instances of people being prescribed pharamceuticals and then not getting the proper follow up to make sure that the meds are working correctly for their bodies, as well as support outside of medicine (such as therapy.) If you want to argue that we need to fix that in this country, I am with you 100%.

    But I don't think that's whole answer. I think having easy and readily available access to guns designed to kill many people, very fast is also a problem. It's like, that is exactly what those guns are made for. And then people act like it's just shocking when someone decides to use it for it's intended purpose. Imagine that I had a torture chamber in my basement; wouldn't you be shocked that I owned that kind of equipment, even if I never actually used it? That would be kind of nuts, right? And if I did use it, or if someone broke into my house and stole it and then used it to torture someone, you wouldn't be completely shocked, because that's exactly what it was meant to be used for. Why even have equipment like that if you don't want to use it for it's intended purpose, right? That's how I feel about these guns that can shoot hundreds of bullets in a couple of seconds. They're designed for one thing, and one thing only, and we make them readily available to pretty much anyone who wants one. How is it that shocking when someone actually uses it?
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  2. #22
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    That's how I feel about these guns that can shoot hundreds of bullets in a couple of seconds. They're designed for one thing, and one thing only, and we make them readily available to pretty much anyone who wants one. How is it that shocking when someone actually uses it?
    If that is the case why were there more murders using hammers or clubs than there were using rifles? And that includes ALL rifles. Maybe we should outlaw baseball bats?

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  3. #23
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    If that is the case why were there more murders using hammers or clubs than there were using rifles? And that includes ALL rifles. Maybe we should outlaw baseball bats?

    FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

    You can make a weapon out of anything. You can beat someone to death with a bar of soap in a sock. That doesn't change the fact that both a bar of soap and a sock are designed for things other than killin', while a gun that shoots a zillion rounds all at once really only has one purpose. So again, using it for it's one purpose shouldn't be that surprising.
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  4. #24
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    You can make a weapon out of anything. You can beat someone to death with a bar of soap in a sock. That doesn't change the fact that both a bar of soap and a sock are designed for things other than killin', while a gun that shoots a zillion rounds all at once really only has one purpose. So again, using it for it's one purpose shouldn't be that surprising.
    Really? There are millions of these guns that are out there that people are using for reasons other than killing people, and 300 that were used to kill people. So what is the purpose again?

    That is no different than saying that baseball bats are designed to kill people because 500 people used them for that purpose.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 01-08-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Really? There are millions of these guns that are out there that people are using for reasons other than killing people, and 300 that were used to kill people. .
    Wait a second. Are you saying that 300 guns were used to kill people last year? That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

    I think you are forgetting a few. Lets not forget about all of the people killed in wars, civil unrest, uprisings etc in just 2012.

    And other than hunting, can you name things that guns are used for, other than killing people? I can't think of other purposes, other than I know some people in your neck of the woods may use them for home decoration.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    If that is the case why were there more murders using hammers or clubs than there were using rifles? And that includes ALL rifles. Maybe we should outlaw baseball bats?

    FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8
    I think you're being purposely obtuse if you are truly trying to say that these items are more deadly than guns
    Last edited by KimPossible; 01-08-2013 at 01:31 PM.

  7. #27
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    Let's take a look at all firearms. 2000 more deaths due to all firearms than all the other weapon totals combined. 2000!

  8. #28
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Wait a second. Are you saying that 300 guns were used to kill people last year? That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

    I think you are forgetting a few. Lets not forget about all of the people killed in wars, civil unrest, uprisings etc in just 2012.

    And other than hunting, can you name things that guns are used for, other than killing people? I can't think of other purposes, other than I know some people in your neck of the woods may use them for home decoration.
    We are talking about rifles only. Yes only 358 people were killed by rifles in 2010, which is the year the data is available, and that includes ALL rifles not just semi-autiomatic. That is the type of gun they are talking about banning, not handguns. 540 people were killed with clubs (like baseball bats) or hammers. 1704 people were killed by knives. So everyone else who used a rifle besides the rifles used to kill those 358 people used them for hunting or target practice or whatever other reason they wanted to use them for. You would have a better argument if they wanted to ban handguns, since those aren't normally used for hunting. But that isn't even what they try to ban. They try to ban rifles. Which makes no sense.
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  9. #29
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    So what would you prefer, Gloria? Elimination of guns or elimination of anti-depressants? Wait, I already think I know the answer to that, except I think without anti-depressants and similar medications there'd be a whole lot more shootings, mass or otherwise.

    All anti-depressants carry warnings about the possibility of certain adverse side effects, among them being increased violent tendencies and suicidal thoughts or actions. Is there an issue with that in the sense of the patient not seeking help when faced with those increased tendencies? Absolutely. Should we do away with anti-depressants altogether, knowing they help millions of people, because we're too afraid of somebody going completely homicidal and shooting a classroom of students, or a theatre full of movie watchers or a campus full of college students? My answer is a resounding NO. Anti-depressants keep people productive members of society, keep marriages together and help to make better parents....by the MILLIONS. Because some people on medication have commited such heinous crimes does not mean that those medications directly contributed to the shootings. Anti-depressants don't make those people so mentally ill as to NOT commit such crimes. The drugs get a bad rep because many jump to the whole correlation/causation bit.


    What I see, as a non-American, is this fascinating, sad, terrifying trend in American society to right all the wrongs done to you by simply killing as many people as possible and then commiting suicide. People that mean nothing to you, or a hell of a lot to you. Doesn't matter, it seems.
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  10. #30
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    I think you're being purposely obtuse if you are truly trying to say that these items are more deadly than guns
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Let's take a look at all firearms. 2000 more deaths due to all firearms than all the other weapon totals combined. 2000!
    But we aren't talking about all guns here. Alissa was saying that we should ban assault rifles. When those are the guns that are used the LEAST amount to kill people.
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