Mel Gibson directing movie about Judah Maccabee

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Mel Gibson directing movie about Judah Maccabee

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jc0i_uZUl8pb48WxZDe3KMzqcUoQ?docId=2d5c717ef8664a41adad62c9a729b5b3

Mel Gibson plans to produce film on Jewish hero
By CHRISTY LEMIRE, AP Movie Writer – 1 hour ago

LOS ANGELES (AP) — Mel Gibson, who reportedly made anti-Semitic remarks during a drunken driving arrest five years ago, is now producing a film about the life of Jewish hero Judah Maccabee.

Gibson's publicist, Alan Nierob, told The Associated Press Friday that Gibson is working on a deal with Warner Bros. to develop the film through his company, Icon Productions. What Gibson's exact role will be — whether he might direct or even star in the film — hasn't been determined.

"Warner Bros. would like him to direct," Nierob said. "He is the first choice for the studio to direct it, but until there's a deal in place and a script that's finished, it will be his choice as to whether to direct it or not."
Joe Eszterhas of "Basic Instinct" and "Flashdance" fame is writing the script. No timetable is in place for it to be completed and for production to begin.

But Gibson's involvement with bringing Maccabee's story to the screen in any form has angered some Jewish leaders. Maccabee, who's acclaimed as one of the greatest warriors in Jewish history, helped inspire the celebration of Hanukkah.

Gibson, the Oscar-winning director of "Braveheart," has defended himself against accusations of anti-Semitism ever since his 2006 drunken driving arrest, in which a deputy's report revealed Gibson made Jewish and sexist slurs while in custody.Last month, he reached a $750,000 settlement with his ex-girlfriend, Russian musician Oksana Grigorieva, and agreed to continue providing housing and financial support for their young daughter to resolve a bitter legal fight that followed sexist, racist rants attributed to the actor.

Okay, folks....is this duo the right one to make a movie like this? Does it matter what someone's background is?

Starryblue702's picture
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The way I look at it, if he did make whatever stupid remarks, it was done while he was sh*tface drunk. We've all said and done stupid stuff while drinking... not that it makes it OK in the slightest, but cut the guy a break. Obviously he is far from a "Jew hater", as he put up millions of dollars of HIS OWN MONEY to make "The Passion of the Christ" because no studio would pay for such a movie... and that movie was about the most famous Jew in history!

culturedmom's picture
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"Starryblue702" wrote:

The way I look at it, if he did make whatever stupid remarks, it was done while he was sh*tface drunk. We've all said and done stupid stuff while drinking... not that it makes it OK in the slightest, but cut the guy a break. Obviously he is far from a "Jew hater", as he put up millions of dollars of HIS OWN MONEY to make "The Passion of the Christ" because no studio would pay for such a movie... and that movie was about the most famous Jew in history!

As a Jew, I question the lens in which you are viewing "The Passion of the Christ" as a pro-Jewish movie. First off, Jesus may have been a Jew, but his story is not seen by Jews as one of the Jewish people. And heis definitely not see by Jews as the most famous Jew in history. Second, maybe you don't remember when the movie came out, but it was protested by many Jews as being anti-Semetic. They questioned Gibson's vision and accused him of using versions anti-Semetic versions of the story that niether the Vatacan nor most modern day Christians follow. So, in my opinion, as a Jew, I think it proves his anti-Semetic stance rather then, as you seem to see it,his innocense.

That said, he may have been drunk, but the way I see it,when you are drunk it just frees you to say what you otherwise would censor yourself from saying. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a "Jew hater" whether it is from his upbringing (his father is a self-proclaimed **** sympathizer) or just his own point of view.

I think he should make whatever movie he wants. But to me it would be like seeing a movie about Martin Luther King that was written by George Wallace. I think his reason for making this movie is to gain back favor with Jews and the public in general. I don't care to see a movie about Jewish anything, from his point of view.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

As a Jew, I question the lens in which you are viewing "The Passion of the Christ" as a pro-Jewish movie. First off, Jesus may have been a Jew, but his story is not seen by Jews as one of the Jewish people. And heis definitely not see by Jews as the most famous Jew in history. Second, maybe you don't remember when the movie came out, but it was protested by many Jews as being anti-Semetic. They questioned Gibson's vision and accused him of using versions anti-Semetic versions of the story that niether the Vatacan nor most modern day Christians follow. So, in my opinion, as a Jew, I think it proves his anti-Semetic stance rather then, as you seem to see it,his innocense.

That said, he may have been drunk, but the way I see it,when you are drunk it just frees you to say what you otherwise would censor yourself from saying. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a "Jew hater" whether it is from his upbringing (his father is a self-proclaimed **** sympathizer) or just his own point of view.

I think he should make whatever movie he wants. But to me it would be like seeing a movie about Martin Luther King that was written by George Wallace. I think his reason for making this movie is to gain back favor with Jews and the public in general. I don't care to see a movie about Jewish anything, from his point of view.

ITA

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"culturedmom" wrote:

As a Jew, I question the lens in which you are viewing "The Passion of the Christ" as a pro-Jewish movie. First off, Jesus may have been a Jew, but his story is not seen by Jews as one of the Jewish people. And heis definitely not see by Jews as the most famous Jew in history. Second, maybe you don't remember when the movie came out, but it was protested by many Jews as being anti-Semetic. They questioned Gibson's vision and accused him of using versions anti-Semetic versions of the story that niether the Vatacan nor most modern day Christians follow. So, in my opinion, as a Jew, I think it proves his anti-Semetic stance rather then, as you seem to see it,his innocense.

That said, he may have been drunk, but the way I see it,when you are drunk it just frees you to say what you otherwise would censor yourself from saying. There is no doubt in my mind that he is a "Jew hater" whether it is from his upbringing (his father is a self-proclaimed **** sympathizer) or just his own point of view.

I think he should make whatever movie he wants. But to me it would be like seeing a movie about Martin Luther King that was written by George Wallace. I think his reason for making this movie is to gain back favor with Jews and the public in general. I don't care to see a movie about Jewish anything, from his point of view.

Word. And I'm still giggling about the notion of the Passion of the Christ being a pro-Jew movie:)

I will forever love him in Braveheart.....but he's a bigot. I won't go see his films any longer. I'm not into anti-semites or wife beaters, really. Call me crazy.

culturedmom's picture
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You know Melis, I still love Braveheart, too. And The Patriot and Lethal Weapon and Signs (love love love Signs), and Maverick and MadMax. He is one of the great actors of our time and I think he is amazingly talented. And the truth is, sometimes great genius comes with a can of nutz on the side, so to speak.

But I also know that film and filmmaking is all about perspective and is all about the bias. And I just can't bring myself to pay money to see something made by someone who has a view point so personally hateful to me and far from anything I want to be subjected to (or give money to by buying a ticket).

BTW, I too was a bit shocked that there was anyone who actually thought Passion of the Christ was a pro-Jewish movie. Never heard that one before.

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"Potter75" wrote:

Word. And I'm still giggling about the notion of the Passion of the Christ being a pro-Jew movie:)

"culturedmom" wrote:

BTW, I too was a bit shocked that there was anyone who actually thought Passion of the Christ was a pro-Jewish movie. Never heard that one before.

Exactly where did I say that The Passion was a pro-Jew movie? I said that it was about a famous Jew...

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"Starryblue702" wrote:

The way I look at it, if he did make whatever stupid remarks, it was done while he was sh*tface drunk. We've all said and done stupid stuff while drinking... not that it makes it OK in the slightest, but cut the guy a break. Obviously he is far from a "Jew hater", as he put up millions of dollars of HIS OWN MONEY to make "The Passion of the Christ" because no studio would pay for such a movie... and that movie was about the most famous Jew in history!

Here is where you said it!

culturedmom's picture
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"Starryblue702" wrote:

Exactly where did I say that The Passion was a pro-Jew movie? I said that it was about a famous Jew...

No, you said that he could not hate Jews because he made The Passion of the Christ which was about the most famous Jew in history. Therefore you were in effect saying that The Passion of the Christ was a movie that had a Pro-Jewish agenda, thus proving he was not against Jews.

And Jesus was not famous because he was Jewish. He is "famous" because certain people believe he is the messiah. So again, how does Jesus' Judaism prove Mel Gibson making a movie about him means Gibson is not anti-Semetic? My point is that his making the movie actually proves he is because the movie hasa very anti-Jewish tone. You think it doesn't (hence me calling it Pro-Jewish), and so I would like to know why and how?

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Thanks Laurie and Lana.

carg0612's picture
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Well, he can make any movie he wants, doesn't mean I want to see it.

There are entertainment pieces that he has participated in that I do love (example Braveheart). I am a Christian but I did not see Passion as anything other than an attempt at making people gape with open mouths at Mel's horror. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't pro-Christian or pro-Jewish. It was just shock and awe tactic.

I suppose I will make the uneducated assumption that this next movie will be along that vein. As such I won't go see it, just can't bring myself to.

True, Mel Gibson has talent. True some people with great talent come a few bricks short of a load. Shame, that.

RebeccaA'07's picture
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He is a loose cannon for sure. I think he is incredibly talented but his recent antics make me want to avoid any production he is in. Plus like someone else pointed out, I'm not really down with wife beaters.

culturedmom's picture
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BTW, this is what Gibson said in an interview a year ago about the film.

"I just read it when I was teenager, and it's amazing. It's almost like" -- here, he grabbed my digital recorder, held it to his mouth, and spoke in a portentous movie-announcer voice -- "They profaned his Temple. They killed his father. They... all kinds of stuff. In the face of great odds for something he believed in" -- here he switched out of movie-announcer voice -- "Oh, my God, the odds they faced. The armies they faced had elephants! How cinematic is this! Even Judah's dad -- what's his name? Mattathias? -- you kind of get this guy who more or less is trying to avoid the whole thing, but he just gets to a place where had enough, and he just snapped!"

Seriously, Judah Maccabee is one of the main heroes in the Jewish religion. We spend 8 days in winter blessing him and his army for heaven sakes. So for Gibson (who in case you didn't remember exactly what he said, here is the exact quote taken from the transcript...."F*****g Jews... The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." "Are you a Jew?") to take an important Jewish figure and make a summer blockbuster out of it, is ridiculous. He has laready made a movie with a religious themeand didn't do us any favors there. So what makes anyone think this movie will be any different or have any different of a bias? Plus in his interview it sounds more like he just wants a good story for an action flick and not to make a movie honoring a hero.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

in his interview it sounds more like he just wants a good story for an action flick and not to make a movie honoring a hero.

Yup. I agree. Like I said - shock and awe tactic. Bleh.

Starryblue702's picture
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"culturedmom" wrote:

No, you said that he could not hate Jews because he made The Passion of the Christ which was about the most famous Jew in history. Therefore you were in effect saying that The Passion of the Christ was a movie that had a Pro-Jewish agenda, thus proving he was not against Jews.

And Jesus was not famous because he was Jewish. He is "famous" because certain people believe he is the messiah. So again, how does Jesus' Judaism prove Mel Gibson making a movie about him means Gibson is not anti-Semetic? My point is that his making the movie actually proves he is because the movie hasa very anti-Jewish tone. You think it doesn't (hence me calling it Pro-Jewish), and so I would like to know why and how?

Well, thank you for interpreting something that I didn't say into something else. I was merely stating that I don't believe deep down that he hates the Jewish community because he put up millions of his own dollars to make a movie that no movie studio would touch (because it was a movie about Jesus, but that's another debate). And again you're twisting my words around with the bolden (either that or are seriously reading into my posts way too much), because all I said was that Jesus was and is the most famous Jew in history, not that his fame was due to him being Jewish. So how is the movie anti-Jewish?

culturedmom's picture
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"Starryblue702" wrote:

Well, thank you for interpreting something that I didn't say into something else. I was merely stating that I don't believe deep down that he hates the Jewish community because he put up millions of his own dollars to make a movie that no movie studio would touch (because it was a movie about Jesus, but that's another debate). And again you're twisting my words around with the bolden (either that or are seriously reading into my posts way too much), because all I said was that Jesus was and is the most famous Jew in history, not that his fame was due to him being Jewish. So how is the movie anti-Jewish?

Is it possible that I neither twisted your words nor read too much into your post, but that maybe, just maybe, you miss comunnicated your point of view? just saying, I'm not the only one who felt you were saying what I said you said (ha). And for someone who wrote that there top 5 rule was just to treat each toher with the utmost respect, I don't appreciate you accusing me of twisting your words on more then one occasion.

Again, yes you said Jesus was the most famous Jew (which I disagree but that is neither here nor there). But you also said that the reason Gibson was not an anti-Semite was because he made a movie about the most famous Jew in history. Now I am more a math person then a grammar person (as you can tell by my typos) but more then a math person, I am a tv person. And I remember school house rock....conjunction junction what's your function? Hookin' up phrases and words and clauses. Smile

Using the conjunction because links dependant whatever ya call its. And because they are dependant means that they are not meant to stand alone.

Ahhhhhh, my brain hurts. Whatever. All this to say, you chose certain words and they lead people to believe you meant one thing that maybe you didn't. But it's not my fault and to accuse me of twisting your words sucks donkey ballz. And I would be very willing to tell you why I think Passion was anti-Semetic. However, I feel like it would be just a waste of time if you are just going to accuse your miscommunications on me.

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"Starryblue702" wrote:

Well, thank you for interpreting something that I didn't say into something else. I was merely stating that I don't believe deep down that he hates the Jewish community because he put up millions of his own dollars to make a movie that no movie studio would touch (because it was a movie about Jesus, but that's another debate). And again you're twisting my words around with the bolden (either that or are seriously reading into my posts way too much), because all I said was that Jesus was and is the most famous Jew in history, not that his fame was due to him being Jewish. So how is the movie anti-Jewish?

When you say that he can't be anti-Semitic because he put up his own money to make a movie about the most famous Jew ever, and that he doesn't hate the Jewish community, and the movie he made was actually about CHRISTIANITY, it doesn't connect. Yes, Jesus was Jewish, but the Christian religion is the one that believes he is the son of God, and the Jews don't. So it's not exactly a pro-Jewish movie. It's not necessarily anti-Jewish either, just going by that, and I didn't see it because of all the blood and gore and violence, which is why I haven't seen many of his movies actually. (I'm not the big blockbuster type, for the most part.) But the reviews, the descriptions by people who saw it, everything indicates that the Jews were portrayed in a VERY negative light.

But presuming the movie is pro-Jewish because it's about Jesus doesn't really make any sense.

culturedmom's picture
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Laurie, the issue with Gibson's movie was he purposely went again contemporary Christian and Catholic belief. One of the great things that Pope John Paul II did was work to bring together Jews and Catholics by righting the past misconceptions and anti-Semetic beliefs. The main reason Jews have been hated and attacked throughout history was because of the belief that we were responsible for the death of Jesus. So for Gibson to bring that idea back in this movie and reject the present day belief of the Catholic Church adn other Christian denominations, is what was so upsetting.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

Laurie, the issue with Gibson's movie was he purposely went again contemporary Christian and Catholic belief. One of the great things that Pope John Paul II did was work to bring together Jews and Catholics by righting the past misconceptions and anti-Semetic beliefs. The main reason Jews have been hated and attacked throughout history was because of the belief that we were responsible for the death of Jesus. So for Gibson to bring that idea back in this movie and reject the present day belief of the Catholic Church adn other Christian denominations, is what was so upsetting.

On a complete side note, I totally and completely do not understand this line of reasoning. From what I recall of my Christian upbringing, in order for Jesus to die for our sins, he had to, well, die. That was the choice that God made, "for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...." It seems like it was actually the Romans that killed Jesus, but even if it *had* been the Jews....so what? According to Christianity, that was God's plan to save the world. Why blame the Jews for being the instruments of God's plan for Jesus to die for your sins? The logic behind that literally makes my head spin.

I once tried to have this discussion with my micro-biology lab partner in college who was a rabid anti-semite and who would NOT leave me alone about it. It didn't go anywhere good.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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I do not believe that The Passion of Christ is meant to be anti-semantic. Nor that all Christian faiths are against Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

I do not believe that The Passion of Christ is meant to be anti-semantic. Nor that all Christian faiths are against Jews. The Jews are God's chosen people.

I don't think anyone thinks (or said) that all Christian faiths are against Jews.

But Lana made some good points about the movie being anti-Semitic, it matches the criticism I read. Would be happy to hear why you disagree, though!

AlyssaEimers's picture
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Sorry, I am not sure which post is from Lana.

I watched the Passion of the Christ when it first came out, but I have to confess that I do not remember much about the specifics of the movie. Just that there was a lot of hype and controversy about it, and that a lot of my friends thought it was very inspiring.

culturedmom's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Sorry, I am not sure which post is from Lana.

I watched the Passion of the Christ when it first came out, but I have to confess that I do not remember much about the specifics of the movie. Just that there was a lot of hype and controversy about it, and that a lot of my friends thought it was very inspiring.

It's ok to like it. Just because you or your friends liked it, doesn't mean you or they are anti-semitic. But this is a little of why their was controversy.

"The study group concluded that a film based on the script they had been shown would promote anti-Semitic sentiments. It assessed that 'the Temple-and by extension Judaism-is presented as a locus of evil…. A Jewish mob is shown in ever-increasing size and ferocity. The mob is plainly identified as representing the Jewish people as a whole, portraying them as such as "bloodthirsty," "frenzied," and "predatory"…Jewish figures are particularly associated with evil uses of money.'

"The scholars also agreed that the script contained significant historical errors. For instance, it 'fundamentally misconceives the relationship between the prefect, Pontius Pilate, and the Temple authorities led by Caiaphas. Caiaphas served at Rome's pleasure. Yet the script shows him bullying Pontius Pilate with an amazing control of the Jewish mob. Pilate even states he fears Caiaphas is plotting a revolt. This is a total reversal of the historical reality of Judea under Roman rule.' The scholars group remarked that 'in the time of Jesus, Romans crucified those Jews they suspected of sedition routinely…. There is absolutely no evidence that crosses of any kind were built by Jews in the Temple.'

"Another conclusion was that 'dramatically, as the script stands, Jesus' opponents are one-dimensional bad guys.... The film takes every opportunity to embellish the violence of the passion, thereby increasing the likelihood of an audience to be filled with outrage at those who perpetuated such a horrendous crime.' The group added: 'Viewers without extensive knowledge of Catholic teaching about interpreting the New Testament will surely leave the theater with the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus.'"3

In September 2003, Gibson gave an interview to Peter Boyer that appeared in the New Yorker on the 15th of that month. "This became a turning point. It said, among other things: 'Gibson originally shot a scene, based on Saint Matthew's Gospel, that pictured Caiaphas, a Jewish high priest, calling down a curse on the Jews for killing Jesus, but he has chosen not to include it. "I wanted it in," he says. "My brother said that I was wimping out if I didn't include it. It happened; it was said, but man, if I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come kill me."'6

"This interview showed that Gibson believed in the libel of the Jewish world conspiracy. Shortly thereafter his father, Hutton Gibson, a self-proclaimed Holocaust denier, gave an interview. Commenting on his father, Mel Gibson said, 'My dad taught me my faith, and I believe what he taught me. The man never lied to me in his life.'"7

carg0612's picture
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I'm not sure where you found the statements above and generally I tend to agree with them except for this part:

"The group added: 'Viewers without extensive knowledge of Catholic teaching about interpreting the New Testament will surely leave the theater with the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus.'"3 "

I was raised Catholic but I could not say that I have "extensive knowledge ... about interpreting the New Testament" but I did not leave the theater with "the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus".

I don't believe that all people are quite that naive and dumb just because they don't have extensive New Testament training.

I did think the whole overplay of violence was just ridiculous. I knew there were some historical inaccuracies. But I don't think your average Christian is ready to go out and look at all Jews as "bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving" just because of this film. I think that's a bit of a stretch - a Mel Gibson-like stretch. It rather implies that Christian's are too stupid and uneducated to know how to formulate their own reasonable opinions. Sounds a bit hypocritical. A bit more shock and awe, eh?

culturedmom's picture
Joined: 09/30/06
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"carg0612" wrote:

I'm not sure where you found the statements above and generally I tend to agree with them except for this part:

"The group added: 'Viewers without extensive knowledge of Catholic teaching about interpreting the New Testament will surely leave the theater with the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus.'"3 "

I was raised Catholic but I could not say that I have "extensive knowledge ... about interpreting the New Testament" but I did not leave the theater with "the overriding impression that the bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving Jews simply had an implacable hatred of Jesus".

I don't believe that all people are quite that naive and dumb just because they don't have extensive New Testament training.

I did think the whole overplay of violence was just ridiculous. I knew there were some historical inaccuracies. But I don't think your average Christian is ready to go out and look at all Jews as "bloodthirsty, vengeful and money-loving" just because of this film. I think that's a bit of a stretch - a Mel Gibson-like stretch. It rather implies that Christian's are too stupid and uneducated to know how to formulate their own reasonable opinions. Sounds a bit hypocritical. A bit more shock and awe, eh?

My apologies, I didn't realize I didn't include the link to the interview. http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=3&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=624&PID=0&IID=572&TTL=Mel_Gibson's_The_Passion_of_the_Christ:_Legitimizing_Anti-Semitism

The statements came from an interview with the then director of teh ADL. He was talking about comments that came from a panel comprised of appointed member of Catholic advisory commitee from what I understand. I don't think the author of the article nor the interviewee expresses those views, but they were just relaying what a panelist felt. I agree that it is way too generala statement and I don;t think that most people, Christian or not, well versed ornot, would come away with a hatred for Jews just from seeingthis movie. I think the point is, that this portrayal of Jews being greedy, bloodthirsty, killers of Jesus and Christianity is exactly the kind of thinking that caused many of histories intolerance for the Jewish people. It took a long time for us to move past it enough so that it is not the predominate thinking in most societies. So to bring back that kind of rehtoric into the main stream media once again, is very scary.

This is the part in the article that talks about exactly where the statment you bolded came from.

"Father Pawlikowski suggested that a joint committee of Catholics and Jews be set up to
analyze the script of The Passion. Dr. Eugene Fisher of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) and Rabbi Dr. Eugene Korn, then of the ADL, jointly put together a nine-person panel. The Catholic panelists were all members of an appointed advisory committee that offers advice to the U.S. bishops on developments in Catholic-Jewish relations.2

carg0612's picture
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Thank you for the context, it really helped my understanding of what you were trying to get at.

I agree with what you're saying. There is just no place for those kinds of damaging and hateful ideas in my world.

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And in case you haven't guessed, Lana is culturedmom. Smile

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"freddieflounder101" wrote:

And in case you haven't guessed, Lana is culturedmom. Smile

Thank you Smile