Thread: Mitt Romney's "47%" comment

Romney's 47 percent comment opens debate

Mitt Romney's secretly taped comments that nearly half of President Obama's voters are "dependent on the government" and "pay no income tax" sparked swift and passionate reactions.


David Brooks of The New York Times titled his op-ed column today "Thurston Howell Romney," a reference to the wealthy character from the sitcom Gilligan's Island. Brooks writes:

Romney's comment is a country-club fantasy.It's what self-satisfied millionaires say to each other. It reinforces every negative view people have about Romney.

Josh Barro, in a commentary for Bloomberg, called Romney's remarks "an utter disaster" for the GOP presidential nominee.


Romney stood by his comments last night, saying his message was "not elegantly stated."


"The president believes in what I've described as a government-centered society, where government plays a larger and larger role, provides for more and more of the needs of the individuals," Romney said in Orange County, Calif. "I happen to believe instead in a free enterprise, free individual society where people pursuing their dreams are able to employ one another, build enterprises, build the strongest economy in the world."

The magazine Mother Jones, which published the Romney video, posted another clip today in which the candidate says Palestinians have "no interest whatsoever in establishing peace."


According to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center, about 46% of Americans paid no income tax in 2011. However, nearly two-thirds of households that don't pay income tax pay payroll taxes. Of the people who don't pay income or payroll taxes, more than half are elderly. The center says more than one-third of those who don't pay income or payroll taxes have incomes of less than $20,000.


Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus defended Romney yesterday in an interview with CNN.

"The point of all of this is the size of the government is too big and if we don't do something about it we're going to really lose the very idea of America," Priebus said on CNN's The Situation Room.


Posts on Twitter about Romney generated 69,000 tweets and retweets in the 11 p.m. hour last night, about an hour after the GOP presidential nominee's hastily called news conference in California. By comparison, there were 19,000 tweets and retweets about Romney at 4 p.m., according to the analysis by Voter Tide, a social media analysis firm. Voter Tide says there were more than 400,000 tweets about Romney yesterday or four times the usual amount.


Obama's campaign immediately began fundraising off Romney's secretly taped comments, according to Politico and The New York Times. The fundraising e-mail came from Jim Messina, Obama's campaign manager, who yesterday called Romney's comments "shocking."

Click the link to hear the full quote, or read the write up here at Mother Jones who originally broke the story:

During a private fundraiser earlier this year, Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney told a small group of wealthy contributors what he truly thinks of all the voters who support President Barack Obama. He dismissed these Americans as freeloaders who pay no taxes, who don't assume responsibility for their lives, and who think government should take care of them. Fielding a question from a donor about how he could triumph in November, Romney replied:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what?These are people who pay no income tax.

Romney went on: "[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."

A lot of people are saying that this shows that Mitt Romney is out of touch with struggling voters, has no respect for them, fully admits that he doesn't care about them and won't work for them, et cetera. What do you think? Also, do you think this will hurt his campaign?

Why should it hurt for him to say something that is true? Payroll tax is paid by the employer, so those people still aren't paying taxes, taxes are paid on their behalf.

Because thats not all he stated, he went on to talk ABOUT that 47%. If all he said was "47% of americans don't pay taxes" then sure, no one would bat an eye because that alone is fact.

That entire clip is full of fallacies and twisted words and does indeed show a lot of ignorance (or dishonesty more likely)

Romney's Wrong And Right About The '47 Percent' : The Two-Way : NPR

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney told supporters that "there are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what" because they are "dependent upon government ... believe that they are victims ... believe the government has a responsibility to care for them ... these are people pay no income tax."


Nicholas Kamm /AFP/Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney talking to reporters Monday in Costa Mesa, Calif.
Who was he talking about?

Well, as The New York Times' Economix blog writes, "Mr. Romney is absolutely correct that about half of American households do not pay federal income tax."

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center, and others, have many times pointed out that a little less than half of Americans pay no federal income taxes. But as TPC also noted last year, "many of those who don't pay income tax do pay other taxes ? federal payroll and excise taxes as well as state and local income, sales, and property taxes."

And why do so many not pay income taxes? According to TPC:


? "About half of people who don't owe income tax are off the rolls not because they take advantage of tax breaks but rather because they have low incomes."

? Of the rest in that group, 75 percent "pay no income tax because of provisions that benefit senior citizens and low-income working families with children."

To imply that most of those who don't pay income taxes are getting away with something, however, raises questions. "Put bluntly," Economix writes, "these are not households shirking their tax liabilities. The pool consists mostly of the poor, of relatively low-income working families and of old people. The tax code is specifically designed to reduce the burden on them."

So what about the "truthiness" of Romney's comments?

By grouping those who don't pay income taxes together with those who he says are "dependent upon government" and therefore support President Obama, Romney has earned "three Pinocchios" from The Washington Post's The Fact Checker. It writes that:

"Romney appears to conflate a few things ? Obama's approval rating, the percentage of people who do not pay income taxes and people who rely on government assistance.

"There may be some overlap between these groups but they really are not the same thing."

In fact, while Romney seemed to say that the president will draw most of his support from those who pay no income taxes, a Tax Foundation map highlighting the 10 states with the highest percentages of "non-payers" shows most are Republican territories:

? Alabama

? Arkansas

? Florida

? Georgia

? Idaho

? Louisiana

? Mississippi

? New Mexico

? South Carolina

? Texas


The liberal news outlet Mother Jones has been breaking the news about Romney's remarks, which were secretly videotaped during a May fundraiser he held in Florida. The candidate himself has stood by his comments, though he's conceded they were "not elegantly stated."

I should add that this tells me that he is twisting facts to paint a picture that doesn't actually exist.

I hate his campaign...its all about bashing liberals and talking about why Obama shouldn't be president and is very little about what he thinks he can actually do differently and correctly.

"I'm going to fix the deficit! But I won't tell you the specifics on how!...in the meanwhile, lets just keep talking about how bad Obama and all his followers are boooooooo hissssss!"

Not only does this do nothing to instill any faith in me that he actually knows how to right things, it also doesn't instill any faith in me that he will even consider my interests as a non-conservative. The first point being the most important.

Originally Posted by KimPossible

I hate his campaign...its all about bashing liberals and talking about why Obama shouldn't be president and is very little about what he thinks he can actually do differently and correctly.

Anything would be better, I'm more afraid of what Obama will do of the same.

What's laughable is that it is Obama that is always spreading the class warfare and talking about the 1%. He is so hung up on people over $250,000 paying more when those are the small business owners who could actually be hiring people and putting this country back on track instead of putting more money into the wasteful government payroll.

The truth is that the extra % that he wants these supposed "rich" to pay would only fund the government for a week and a half. And that is his big plan?

I completely agree with you Kim. The thing that bothers me about his comments is not even the lack of respect that he shows for struggling families (they think they're victims, they won't take responsibility for their lives...et cetera.) Honestly, that didn't even shock me; I kind of figured he felt that way already. The thing that bothers me is the downright twisting of the facts. I mean, if you think about the math here, assuming that about half of voters support Obama, if he's saying that 47% don't pay taxes and therefore support Obama, he's basically saying that only like 3% of Obama supporters pay income tax, which is freaking absurd! I know there is no way they could ever find anything that even remotely backs his statements up. Especially since the states with the highest poverty rates (therefore with people most likely to either not pay income tax or be on assistance or both) are typically red states who would presumably go for Mitt Romney.

I don't think this hurts him with people like me, because I already wasn't going to vote for him. My initial reaction of "WTF?!? I pay taxes!" doesn't change that I wasn't going to vote for him anyway. I do wonder if any of his own constituents (like, the ones who don't pay taxes today, like in all of those high poverty red states) will look at this and think "Wow, this guy kind of thinks we refuse to take responsibility for our lives just because we're poor" and rethink voting for him. Maybe not.

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

Anything would be better

This statement frightens me but i hear it over and over again....the Elmer Fudd thing. Its astonishing honestly.


And its just a false statement but sounds great in the heat of the moment. Romney won't tell you what he's actually going to do fix everything he claims he's going to fix....that should concern you.

Anyway, i don't want to get too far off topic seeing as this was supposed to be about Romney's specific comments. They were insulting to say the least, and just so inaccurately presented anyway.

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

Why should it hurt for him to say something that is true? Payroll tax is paid by the employer, so those people still aren't paying taxes, taxes are paid on their behalf.

If it comes out of their paycheck (and it does!) the employees, not the employers, are paying the taxes. The employers can't claim to have paid it just because they send it in! LOL That's like if you gave me money every month to pay your electric bill, I mailed it in, and then went around telling people that I pay your electric bill. No I don't, it's your money that is paying it! LOL

Originally Posted by KimPossible

This statement frightens me but i hear it over and over again....the Elmer Fudd thing. Its astonishing honestly.

Agree with this too. I don't understand how someone could believe that literally anything would be better, and not need to hear the details. Anything! Anything at all....it blows my mind.

Originally Posted by KimPossible

This statement frightens me but i hear it over and over again....the Elmer Fudd thing. Its astonishing honestly.

I'm sure it doesn't frighten you near as much as it frightens me that Obama might get re-elected. The only thing that has held him back at all for these four years is that he couldn't implement everything he wants to do because he still needs people to re-elect him. What is he going to do when that safetly valve is gone? That really scares me. He has proven that he has no problem making up his own rules and bypassing congress when it suits him.

Originally Posted by GloriaInTX

I'm sure it doesn't frighten you near as much as it frightens me that Obama might get re-elected. The only thing that has held him back at all for these four years is that he couldn't implement everything he wants to do because he still needs people to re-elect him. What is he going to do when that safetly valve is gone? That really scares me. He has proven that he has no problem making up his own rules and bypassing congress when it suits him.

No offense Gloria, but this seems to be such an over the top emotional response. He's not a monster or a boogy man. He's still a human being. Can you give some specifics about what you think will happen if he is re-elected?