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  1. #81
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    You may not be but I am, and Stacey is, and really anyone who has this conversation usually is. I'm fine with using stats on people who self identity as "Christians" as "Christians" in a debate. I know you like to tell people who "really really" are Christians and who are not, but I am comfortable allowing people to define for themselves what they are or are not. I don't think that even "liberal" christianity embraces abortion.

    Either way its neither here nor there to the debate, really. Its a tangent. If you want to win that point and we can all pretend that whatever kind of Christian you call your group is has a 0% abortion rate, okay! You win.

  2. #82
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Potter you MADE the groupings yourself in this debate, not me.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    See ~this is the difference. You don't want people to have access to this drug, and I do. So you want to set up a power differential , whereby a woman feels scared or intimidated to ask for what they need ~ and I DON'T!
    You guys make every person wanting plan B 12. I bet that 99% of people who use planB are NOT 12!!!! So lets not make plan B something that , say, a 18 year old like I was (who was a field hockey goalie) who had bruises (because I was a GOALIE) and I was 5'3 and 90 lbs and looked about 15......don't put me in a position where I need to ask some stranger please pretty please may I have a pill I need because I had RESPONSIBLE consentual sex and a condom broke.

    You guys may be teaching your children that "ANY ADULT" is a safe person to talk to about their personal sexual life, but that isn't how we are doing it. (Are you guys really doing that? You scare me?) And no, I don't think that they are all creepers, but I also don't know that they are therapists, or Dr's, or counselors, or that they in any way have ANY training which would give them license to talk to a scared teen. I DO NOT think that teens are waltzing into pharmacies bragging about needing Plan B. I can only speak from my personal experience as a 35 yo woman.....but we had a BC slip up late at night, I was on the phone at 8 AM, and in the drive through line with a red face at 9 AM. Even as a MARRIED WOMAN with 3 kids in the car I felt weird, like I was wearing this big sign that said "HAD GREAT SEX LAST NIGHT! OOPS **** BROKE!!!!" You want some poor teenager to have to walk in and talk to some strange man about it? Some man who is eying her up just looking for a reason to CALL THE POLICE ON HER? Yeah, no thanks. What you really want is to make kids to scared and intimidated and ashamed to ask for it, so they won't use it, so teen pregnancies continue, because there is a religious agenda against this pill. Its okay to admit it.
    Do not assume you know what I want. My agenda against this has little to do with the pill and more to do with the assumption that little girls are capable of making big decisions all by themselves. I am totallly fine with adults taking it

    Dh's best friend is a pharmacist, part of their job is to monitor patients to make sure abuse is not happening (either abuse of the drug, or of the patient taking the drug)
    Lisa
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Thank you Laurie! YES!

    You girls have gone on a 180 about this subject ~ From NO ONE EVER CAN EDUCATE MY CHILDREN ABOUT SEX......

    to ANY adult can and MUST talk to them about sex. Including male pharmacists.

    You must see the irony, right?
    I still dont want most adults to talk to my children about sex, I make sure I do my job so other adults dont have to do it for me. But if someone how one of my kids chose not to come to me I hope another adult would talk to them to at least make sure they are safe.
    Lisa
    Molly, Morgan, Mia and Carson

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    Prolific Poster Danifo's Avatar
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    I made the pharmacist comment and I also said I can see how it wouldn't work in real life. if they can't talk to a known adult, they aren't going to want to talk to a random pharmacist. But I think that should be an option.

    Tylenol does have side effects but any medication worth taking does. You can take proper dosage daily or multiple times a month with a neglible risk. To me that is the biggest difference. I doubt taking Plan B frequently is good for you .

    I honestly think anyone who needs Plan B should get the reminder about proper birth control . It may not apply to everyone and if it doesn't they can ignore it. But if it helps a few people use proper protection it is worth it.

    when I hemorrhaged 5 days post partum, every doctor I saw that day asked my husband to leave the room and asked me about domestic violence and asked about what BC we were using (5 days post partum?) and reminded me breast feeding was not reliable BC. There was no indication that I needed to be asked and by the 5th time my husband was getting offended. However, I understand they need to ask.
    DD1 July 2008 (41w3d)
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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    Do not assume you know what I want. My agenda against this has little to do with the pill and more to do with the assumption that little girls are capable of making big decisions all by themselves. I am totallly fine with adults taking it

    Dh's best friend is a pharmacist, part of their job is to monitor patients to make sure abuse is not happening (either abuse of the drug, or of the patient taking the drug)
    I don't think they're capable of making those decisions all by themselves. . .I just think sometimes they don't have much of a choice, and while the ideal answer is to change things so there is somewhere to go, the reality is that either these girls get something to prevent pregnancy and still have the same problems, or they have the same problems and then also get pregnant.

    And I really think the "talking to someone" suggestion originally made was meant to go far beyond a discussion of physical effects, which is why I think a public conversation in a drugstore with a stranger is not a good alternative.
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  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danifo View Post
    I made the pharmacist comment and I also said I can see how it wouldn't work in real life. if they can't talk to a known adult, they aren't going to want to talk to a random pharmacist. But I think that should be an option.

    Tylenol does have side effects but any medication worth taking does. You can take proper dosage daily or multiple times a month with a neglible risk. To me that is the biggest difference. I doubt taking Plan B frequently is good for you .

    I honestly think anyone who needs Plan B should get the reminder about proper birth control . It may not apply to everyone and if it doesn't they can ignore it. But if it helps a few people use proper protection it is worth it.

    when I hemorrhaged 5 days post partum, every doctor I saw that day asked my husband to leave the room and asked me about domestic violence and asked about what BC we were using (5 days post partum?) and reminded me breast feeding was not reliable BC. There was no indication that I needed to be asked and by the 5th time my husband was getting offended. However, I understand they need to ask.
    Who is frequently taking plan b though? It's like 50.00 a pill or what not. I don't think many young girls will have that time and time again do you? Even monthly? I wouldn't want to pay that vs. what it costs for a box of condoms and/or bcp (which in many cases is now free through insurance)...it wouldn't make any sense.

    I read an article last night and now I can't find it. It basically had a bunch of pharmacists being interviewed about plan b and one pharmacist said they keep 1 pill in stock and it frequently expires before it can be dispensed...so that's leading me to believe most people don't pursue this option. Who knows why but they don't. I don't think all of a sudden there will be lines of young girls and young women in pharmacies asking for this fairly pricey pill...do you?

    Like Melissa, I have had an oopsie as a married woman...never as a teen...funny right? I would really not expect nor want a "discussion" on proper birth control if I went to pick up plan b (we didn't opt for that....I just kept hoping that I wasn't pregnant..and I wasn't lol) nor do I think a young girl needs that. Either she is using proper bc methods and it didn't go as planned or she's not and she's probably not going to listen to what the pharmacist has to say...especially if it is a lecture.

    I also would not want to put that responsibility on a pharmacists shoulder. My cousin and her husband are pharmacists and they are busy pretty much the whole time working. I think having them take on the burden of counseling a young girl on her sexual choices is asking a bit much of them.
    Mom to Elizabeth (6) and Corinne (4)

  8. #88
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    I didnt mean that there had to a be a full on counseling session, but I do think that a responsible adult should lay eyes are her. Just to make sure there is not obvious signs of abuse going on.
    Maybe I live in some kind of a crazy world but I do not see a bunch of young girls around me having sex. My DD and her friends are all talking about puppies and boy bands.
    Lisa
    Molly, Morgan, Mia and Carson

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mom3girls View Post
    I didnt mean that there had to a be a full on counseling session, but I do think that a responsible adult should lay eyes are her. Just to make sure there is not obvious signs of abuse going on.
    Maybe I live in some kind of a crazy world but I do not see a bunch of young girls around me having sex. My DD and her friends are all talking about puppies and boy bands.
    A pharmacist doesn't solve the problem, though.

    There are a lot of young girls having sex. More than I like to think about.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danifo View Post
    I made the pharmacist comment and I also said I can see how it wouldn't work in real life. if they can't talk to a known adult, they aren't going to want to talk to a random pharmacist. But I think that should be an option.

    Tylenol does have side effects but any medication worth taking does. You can take proper dosage daily or multiple times a month with a neglible risk. To me that is the biggest difference. I doubt taking Plan B frequently is good for you .

    I honestly think anyone who needs Plan B should get the reminder about proper birth control . It may not apply to everyone and if it doesn't they can ignore it. But if it helps a few people use proper protection it is worth it.

    when I hemorrhaged 5 days post partum, every doctor I saw that day asked my husband to leave the room and asked me about domestic violence and asked about what BC we were using (5 days post partum?) and reminded me breast feeding was not reliable BC. There was no indication that I needed to be asked and by the 5th time my husband was getting offended. However, I understand they need to ask.
    I totally disagree- I talk with my pharmacist about all my meds.. I wouldn't talk about them with my best friends, parents or necessarily my husband either.
    Not sure they need a reminder about birth control.. not sure anyone doesn't know about a condom that is having sex. I think more about the risks of taking the medication itself... There are ALWAYS side effects to any medication... And do not sugar coat it or leave out things.. as dr's are prone to do.. even in medications that have nothing to do with procreation issues.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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