Must Speak English to be Elected?

93 posts / 0 new
Last post
culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Starryblue702" wrote:

First off, in no way am I blaming illegal immigration on my child's grades. I said that was "part" of the problem. And the D that he got in reading was SOLELY BASED ON THE PROFICIANCY TEST that they gave him, and not on any of the homework, work done in class nor any of the tests (which he gets A's and B's), that's why it's so upsetting... because his grades aren't based on the GOOD grades that he gets in class on all of his normal work and not based on that he CAN in fact read very well. I was simply stating that ONE of the problems is that teachers have to waste so much time in class teaching other children how to speak the english language when that should be done by the parents and children should be required to speak english fluently before coming to school.
Second, I actually do read to my child every day, it's part of his homework. And during the summers we faithfully go to the library every week and get new books to read each time. I DO actually read with inflection and tone, but I certainly don't expect my six year old to be able to do that perfectly, not this young. DH and I DO actually read all of the time, I get a new book myself each time I go to the library, if I'm not reading something on my ipad. Maybe you should stop judging and accusing people on here, as your spelling comment towards me is completely uncalled for and against the rules of this board. If you need reminding, this is a DEBATE board, where we debate the TOPIC, we don't personally attack one another for something as miniscule as a simple misspelled word.

To the bolded, I find it deplorable that if a child is not at the same level as your child you consider it "a waste of time" for the teacher to teach them. Do you feel the same for the children with disabilities? are they a waste of time and taking away time from your child as well?

There is the wonderful school in Isreal called the Bialik-Rogozin School. They did a documentary on it and it won an Oscar. The children attending this school are all refugees and immigrants from all over the world. None of them come in speaking the language. However they flurish and go on to do great things and it doesn;t hinder their learning but it helps them learn empathy, comradery, tolerance, and the will to help each other succeed.

So don't blame other children for your childs educational problems. I grew up in South Florida where 80% of th people speak Spanish as their first language, 90% of the students are Hispanic, and way more then 20% of kids coming into the school system don't speak English (and most of their parents don't either). Yet I went on to college and have a Ph.D. so obviously those lazy Spanish speakers weren't that much of a hinderance.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"Starryblue702" wrote:

No, becuase everyone makes mistakes, whether on purpose or not. Our dialects all sound different as well, depending on what part of the country that you live in. I mean be able to speak the language without issues, or slowing down, as it says that she does when she speaks. If you're holding any public office, you're goint to have speaking engagements, and in those you need to sound professional in your posotion as an American public official, and you don't if you aren't fluent in your speech and vocabulary.

I may live in Canada, but we've had unilingual, French-speaking politicians for decades and our government or parliamentary system hasn't crumbled. Then again, we are officially a bilingual country. That doesn't mean that politicians need to speak English though. It just means we have two official languages. Everyone has the right to speak either language without having to speak both, including politicians. They have the same rights as everyone else. Yeah, it helps to be bilingual, but it's not a requirement to hold public office. I hear plenty of Bloc Quebecois party members giving interviews on tv or speaking in the House and they are simply translated for.

wlillie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 8 hours ago
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796
boilermaker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/21/02
Posts: 1984

40% of the kids at my children's school speak something other than English as their first language. We live in a college town, so while a majority of those kids speak Spanish, many of them also speak Mandarin, Indian, Thai, French, German, etc. My kids are thriving academically and their only complaint is that dh and I don't speak another language fluently. They kind of feel disadvantaged that we *don't* speak another language at home (and I think they are right.....) Wink

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"blather" wrote:

Glad to hear that you are reading to your child and practicing his reading. You're right, standardized testing leaves much to be desired.

However, perhaps you should look "attack" up in the dictionary? There are no attacks from my side.

If you are judging others based on their English proficiency, expect others to do the same to you.

I'm not judging anyone, I'm replying to the OP and adding my point of view to it. And I didn't say anything ABOUT you or TO you that was judgemental, as you did to me. My point was that we're here to debate the topics as the rules clearly state, and that's not what you did. You felt the need to demean me because I misspelled a word, which is what I have a problem with, as that's not what this board is here to do.

"culturedmom" wrote:

So don't blame other children for your childs educational problems.

Where exactly did I blame other children for my child's "educational problems?" I was speaking of two totally different things. ONE: that I thought that the school's way of grading the children solely on the scores they get from a proficiancy exam that's filled with things that they haven't yet been taught was ridiculous and setting the children up to fail. TWO: that the fact that 1/5 of the chilren attending school don't speak english, so that takes away from all of the other children learning in the classroom because the teachers are having to somehow teach children who don't speak English... which is just one of the many reasons why our children (at least in my school district, which is ranked 46th out of the 50 states right now) is so far behind. It is in no way the children's fault. It blows my mind that we can't at least all agree one thing, that children should be required to speak english when they enter into the school system. Why is that too much to ask? It's not the elementary teacher's responsibility to teach them our primary language. I'm all for children speaking two languages, even if english is their second... but the point is that if they're going to live in this country, english should be there somewhere.

"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Everyone has the right to speak either language without having to speak both, including politicians. They have the same rights as everyone else. Yeah, it helps to be bilingual, but it's not a requirement to hold public office.

Well that's the difference between your country and mine. English is our primary language, and therefore to become a U.S. citizen you are required to read, write, and speak simple english. Like I said before, if someone has become a citizen of the U.S. and has children and they want to teach them their native language I'm all for it, but they need to teach them english as well, as that is America's official language. There are plenty of bilingual children at my sons' school, and their english is perfect. That's because their parents took the time to teach it to them, and now they won't be behind in school like the other children who don't speak the language because the teacher is having to take classtime away to do it.

culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Where exactly did I blame other children for my child's "educational problems?" I was speaking of two totally different things. ONE: that I thought that the school's way of grading the children solely on the scores they get from a proficiancy exam that's filled with things that they haven't yet been taught was ridiculous and setting the children up to fail. TWO: that the fact that 1/5 of the chilren attending school don't speak english, so that takes away from all of the other children learning in the classroom because the teachers are having to somehow teach children who don't speak English... which is just one of the many reasons why our children (at least in my school district, which is ranked 46th out of the 50 states right now) is so far behind. It is in no way the children's fault. It blows my mind that we can't at least all agree one thing, that children should be required to speak english when they enter into the school system. Why is that too much to ask? It's not the elementary teacher's responsibility to teach them our primary language. I'm all for children speaking two languages, even if english is their second... but the point is that if they're going to live in this country, english should be there somewhere.

Where did you blame the ESl children for your childs lack of education? Um, when you said "it was part of the problem" and when you said they take up the teachers time. And NO, I will never agree that children should come into school knowing English. What I do agree to is that public school should be available to everyone, at whatever level they start. Whether they need help learning to read, count to ten, or speak english. And I go back to my question to you that you ignored, do you think the same thing about children with learning differences and disabilities? My DD has a little girl in her class with CP who barely speaks at all. Should I assume that if you take issue with kids in school who are just learnign to speak English then I can only imagine you must take issue with children who don't speak at all. My father came ot this country when he was 13 and did not speak English. He learned watching tv and in school and by the end of the year he was pretty fluent. Some kids with learning differences will never learn to communicate well or at all. Are you against them having to share your child's precious educational time as well?

Give me your tired and your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free. Nowhere does it say "As long as you speak English".

Oh and to the bolded as to why that is too much to ask. Going back to my father, who came to this country with his 16 yo sister and had to spend a year in Mexico alone in a hostel before beig able to come to this country and then had to live with his grandparents because his parents couldn't leave Cuba for another 6 years. And durign that time went ot school while his grandparents both worked 2 jobs in factories and my aunt worked after school as well.....seems pretty obvious why he couldn't learn english before he started school.

Seriously, if you feel they shouldn't be allowed to start school without knowing English, where in the name of G-d do you expect them to learn it from?

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Well that's the difference between your country and mine. English is our primary language, and therefore to become a U.S. citizen you are required to read, write, and speak simple english. Like I said before, if someone has become a citizen of the U.S. and has children and they want to teach them their native language I'm all for it, but they need to teach them english as well, as that is America's official language. There are plenty of bilingual children at my sons' school, and their english is perfect. That's because their parents took the time to teach it to them, and now they won't be behind in school like the other children who don't speak the language because the teacher is having to take classtime away to do it.

Uhhhh, did I miss something?

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"culturedmom" wrote:

Where did you blame the ESl children for your childs lack of education? Um, when you said "it was part of the problem" and when you said they take up the teachers time. And NO, I will never agree that children should come into school knowing English. What I do agree to is that public school should be available to everyone, at whatever level they start. Whether they need help learning to read, count to ten, or speak english. And I go back to my question to you that you ignored, do you think the same thing about children with learning differences and disabilities? My DD has a little girl in her class with CP who barely speaks at all. Should I assume that if you take issue with kids in school who are just learnign to speak English then I can only imagine you must take issue with children who don't speak at all. My father came ot this country when he was 13 and did not speak English. He learned watching tv and in school and by the end of the year he was pretty fluent. Some kids with learning differences will never learn to communicate well or at all. Are you against them having to share your child's precious educational time as well?

Give me your tired and your poor, your huddles masses yearning to breathe free. Nowhere does it say "As long as you speak English".

Oh and to the bolded as to why that is too much to ask. Going back to my father, who came to this country with his 16 yo sister and had to spend a year in Mexico alone in a hostel before beig able to come to this country and then had to live with his grandparents because his parents couldn't leave Cuba for another 6 years. And durign that time went ot school while his grandparents both worked 2 jobs in factories and my aunt worked after school as well.....seems pretty obvious why he couldn't learn english before he started school.

Seriously, if you feel they shouldn't be allowed to start school without knowing English, where in the name of G-d do you expect them to learn it from?

You can't compare a child with a physical disablilty to a child that doesn't speak english, they're two totally different things. I also went to school with a girl who had CP, and she too hardly was able to speak... but she was able to UNDERSTAND completely and graduated with the rest of us just as if she had no disability at all. And in all of this going back and forth I have NEVER blamed the children themselves, as I said many times that none of this is their fault. I said the fact that they can't speak english is the problem. A child cannot be blamed for something that they haven't been taught and have nothing to do with. The responsibility lies on their parents. And it's funny that their parents had time to teach them their native language, but not the time to teach them english? Kids are sponges, and the first five years of life is the best time to teach them another language. The problem there is that the parents don't know english themselves, so of course they cannot teach it to their children.

ALL of the immigrants that came to this country when we were first founded that didn't speak english had to go through hard times whether working or whatever else to learn the language and teach it to their children, and it worked out just fine for them. It's only recently that we've started making excuses for everything. This whole argument goes back to immigration, as the people that live here that cannot speak ANY english are most likely here illegally, because as I stated before, to become a legal U.S. citizen you have to be able to read, speak, and write in english. Do you think that is wrong to ask of people? If I wanted to pick up my family and move to Paris and become a citizen, you better believe not only would I learn French myself, but I would teach it to my kids. I wouldn't go over thinking that I was entitled and everyone there had better prepare themselves for me and my American-English speaking family. You adapt to the choices that you're making, even if it's difficult for you. And to the bolden... I expect their parents to teach them.

Spacers's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 4104

"boilermaker" wrote:

40% of the kids at my children's school speak something other than English as their first language. We live in a college town, so while a majority of those kids speak Spanish, many of them also speak Mandarin, Indian, Thai, French, German, etc. My kids are thriving academically and their only complaint is that dh and I don't speak another language fluently. They kind of feel disadvantaged that we *don't* speak another language at home (and I think they are right.....) Wink

Ditto this. I can't find current data on our school, but from two years ago, 72% of our students spoke a second language at home, and 30% of our students were classified as non-native English speakers, which means that they didn't speak English before they started school. We have kids in our school whose parents don't speak English at all, or very limited, because they are very recent immigrants; how on Earth are they going to teach English to their kids? And yet our state standardized scores are well above 800, more than half of our kids qualify for GATE every year, our students routinely win spelling bees & geography bees, and on & on & on.... Clearly it hasn't hampered our students or our teachers' ability to teach all the students.

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Audra I'm shocked to hear that. From the time I spent in Colorado I wouldn't consider it such a racially and ethnically diverse place. I guess a lot has changed in 10 years (or maybe I was just in the wrong parts living in Boulder and Crested Butte Lol

culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Starryblue702" wrote:

You can't compare a child with a physical disablilty to a child that doesn't speak english, they're two totally different things. I also went to school with a girl who had CP, and she too hardly was able to speak... but she was able to UNDERSTAND completely and graduated with the rest of us just as if she had no disability at all. And in all of this going back and forth I have NEVER blamed the children themselves, as I said many times that none of this is their fault. I said the fact that they can't speak english is the problem. A child cannot be blamed for something that they haven't been taught and have nothing to do with. The responsibility lies on their parents. And it's funny that their parents had time to teach them their native language, but not the time to teach them english? Kids are sponges, and the first five years of life is the best time to teach them another language. The problem there is that the parents don't know english themselves, so of course they cannot teach it to their children.

ALL of the immigrants that came to this country when we were first founded that didn't speak english had to go through hard times whether working or whatever else to learn the language and teach it to their children, and it worked out just fine for them. It's only recently that we've started making excuses for everything. This whole argument goes back to immigration, as the people that live here that cannot speak ANY english are most likely here illegally, because as I stated before, to become a legal U.S. citizen you have to be able to read, speak, and write in english. Do you think that is wrong to ask of people? If I wanted to pick up my family and move to Paris and become a citizen, you better believe not only would I learn French myself, but I would teach it to my kids. I wouldn't go over thinking that I was entitled and everyone there had better prepare themselves for me and my American-English speaking family. You adapt to the choices that you're making, even if it's difficult for you. And to the bolden... I expect their parents to teach them.

I can't give an opinion to your post because I am shocked at the absurdness of the statment in bold. Not only are you expecting the kids to come here and learn english before they can start school but you expect them to know English before they even leave their own country? What? How many languages have you taught your child? My kids speak 2 and learning Hebrew. I hope yours do too or else if I was going by your statment I would be shocked at your laziness for you only teaching your children their "native-language".

I am shocked at the amount of priviledge you speak with and the expectations you have for immirgrants but do not expect for yourself.

And you are the one who said kids should come into school knowing how to speak English. Why is that not a rule for everyone then, immigrant or disabled? It's your rule, not mine. I believe all children should be allowed the right to learn. ALL. You are the one hand picking the children whom you deam "worthy", not me.

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

That sentence actually made me laugh out loud, Lana. I just don't have to energy to deal with that one.

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"Spacers" wrote:

Ditto this. I can't find current data on our school, but from two years ago, 72% of our students spoke a second language at home, and 30% of our students were classified as non-native English speakers, which means that they didn't speak English before they started school. We have kids in our school whose parents don't speak English at all, or very limited, because they are very recent immigrants; how on Earth are they going to teach English to their kids? And yet our state standardized scores are well above 800, more than half of our kids qualify for GATE every year, our students routinely win spelling bees & geography bees, and on & on & on.... Clearly it hasn't hampered our students or our teachers' ability to teach all the students.

What state do you live in? I'm just talking about my state, Nevada, and how poorly our public education system is here. Like I posted before, Nevada is ranked 46 out of 50 for education... so it is a big problem here. Our schools also receive the least amount per student, around $6500 when the national average per student that the schools receive is around $8300. That makes a big difference, too.

culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Potter75" wrote:

That sentence actually made me laugh out loud, Lana. I just don't have to energy to deal with that one.

It reminded me of that line in the movie Little Big League

-I don?t know man,kids today are amazing! I went to Venezula and and kids half his age were speaking spanish-that is a HARD language!

Uh, they speak Spanish in Venezula

I know man, that?s my point!

Seriously, parents in Mexico can take the time to teach their children Spanish for f*@& sakes then why can't they teach them English? Makes completel sense to me.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

Krystal, what do you think the 'primary' language of Canada is?

Offline
Last seen: 3 months 3 weeks ago
Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1763

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Where exactly did I blame other children for my child's "educational problems?" I was speaking of two totally different things. ONE: that I thought that the school's way of grading the children solely on the scores they get from a proficiancy exam that's filled with things that they haven't yet been taught was ridiculous and setting the children up to fail. TWO: that the fact that 1/5 of the chilren attending school don't speak english, so that takes away from all of the other children learning in the classroom because the teachers are having to somehow teach children who don't speak English... which is just one of the many reasons why our children (at least in my school district, which is ranked 46th out of the 50 states right now) is so far behind. It is in no way the children's fault. It blows my mind that we can't at least all agree one thing, that children should be required to speak english when they enter into the school system. Why is that too much to ask? It's not the elementary teacher's responsibility to teach them our primary language. I'm all for children speaking two languages, even if english is their second... but the point is that if they're going to live in this country, english should be there somewhere.

1. Children enter the school system at different times. I remember in 8th grade we had a Vietnamese family move to my area. The boy in my grade started school without any English at all. Should he have been denied an education because of it? No. My BIL came to the US from Poland at age 14. Should he have been denied access to school becuase of it?

2. Yes, that is the teacher's job to teach English to chldren. I took language arts/English all the way through K-12 and about 45 college units with a ENG prefix. You can be as proud as you want of the fact that your children learned to speak English as their primary language in your home, but they aren't fluent. Fluency encompasses reading, writing, listening, and speaking the language.

Out of curiousity, how many languages are you fluent in?

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"culturedmom" wrote:

I can't give an opinion to your post because I am shocked at the absurdness of the statment in bold. Not only are you expecting the kids to come here and learn english before they can start school but you expect them to know English before they even leave their own country? What? How many languages have you taught your child? My kids speak 2 and learning Hebrew. I hope yours do too or else if I was going by your statment I would be shocked at your laziness for you only teaching your children their "native-language".

I am shocked at the amount of priviledge you speak with and the expectations you have for immirgrants but do not expect for yourself.

And you are the one who said kids should come into school knowing how to speak English. Why is that not a rule for everyone then, immigrant or disabled? It's your rule, not mine. I believe all children should be allowed the right to learn. ALL. You are the one hand picking the children whom you deam "worthy", not me.

Obviously I was referring to the children who were BORN in this country, not of those who migrated here. My apologies if that was not clear.

"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Krystal, what do you think the 'primary' language of Canada is?

English and French are both recognized as the official languages of Canada according to your Constitution, although Quebec's official language is French.

Obviously this debate isn't going to go anywhere, as we all have differing points of views on this matter and could go on and on forever, just like people could on the abortion debate. I've said my piece, as I have a right to, and you ladies have said yours as you have a right to. We'll have to just agree to disagree.

boilermaker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/21/02
Posts: 1984

"Potter75" wrote:

Audra I'm shocked to hear that. From the time I spent in Colorado I wouldn't consider it such a racially and ethnically diverse place. I guess a lot has changed in 10 years (or maybe I was just in the wrong parts living in Boulder and Crested Butte Lol

LOL-- I would never suggest that Colorado itself is really diverse (especially after growing up just outside of Chicago....) But in our college town, we have so many grad students and faculty from around the world, that some of the elementary and high schools are more diverse than you'd guess. We do also have a large Latino population (thanks in large part to an immigration influx from a large beef processing facility in a nearby town.....) And we have some big software/computer companies-- so we have many Asians and Indians around town. Smile I love engineers!

The Republic of Boulder is diverse Wink In religion, in hippies, in backgrounds-- but notsomuch socioeconomically....And you know, diverse in sandals. Some wear Birckenstocks, others Tevas, other Keens.... crazy different.

ftmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 8 months ago
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

"Starryblue702" wrote:

What state do you live in? I'm just talking about my state, Nevada, and how poorly our public education system is here. Like I posted before, Nevada is ranked 46 out of 50 for education... so it is a big problem here. Our schools also receive the least amount per student, around $6500 when the national average per student that the schools receive is around $8300. That makes a big difference, too.

I would suggest that this is more your problem than the number of students who speak another language.

I believe that all students deserve an education, no matter what their circumstances, however it is difficult to accomplish if the funding isnt there. I have worked in schools where 90% of the students are ESL and I have had to have other students in the class translate the work to the 'newer' students for me because they dont speak English, and those kids were doing great because the resources were available to have extra adults in the classroom and pull outs throughout the day to work on language development (this was in Alberta).

Our teachers union (in BC) is fighting right now because a number of schools in the lower mainland are like that now, but there is no limit to the number of teachers to high needs children, so the teachers and therefore the students are struggling. It is simply a matter of funding, and really has nothing to do with the language the student speaks at all.

culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Obviously I was referring to the children who were BORN in this country, not of those who migrated here. My apologies if that was not clear.

Now you are back peddling because you yourself used the word immigrant while debating the subject. So you knew very well what we were talking about. That said, I would bet my first born that the majority of children who come into the school system without knowing any English were not born here. There might be a very few who come into Kinder not speaking English and were born here though I doubt it. But if that were the case then by 1st grade they would know and it would not be a problem. And most kids in Kinder are learnign language and communication skills anyway.

And since you like reminding everyone that this is a debate board then may I remind you that a debate is about arguing both sides. just comign and saying your peace and then saying "well you said yours and I said mine" is not a debate.

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"boilermaker" wrote:

LOL-- I would never suggest that Colorado itself is really diverse (especially after growing up just outside of Chicago....) But in our college town, we have so many grad students and faculty from around the world, that some of the elementary and high schools are more diverse than you'd guess. We do also have a large Latino population (thanks in large part to an immigration influx from a large beef processing facility in a nearby town.....) And we have some big software/computer companies-- so we have many Asians and Indians around town. Smile I love engineers!

The Republic of Boulder is diverse Wink In religion, in hippies, in backgrounds-- but notsomuch socioeconomically....And you know, diverse in sandals. Some wear Birckenstocks, others Tevas, other Keens.... crazy different.

LOL Smile I'm a keen girl, myself. I have a pair that have lasted 10 years and still look great ~ amazing shoes Smile

And Krystal, I would agree with Lana, the point isn't just making statements, being unable to substantiate them with facts, act picked on, then walk away. Its a debate board. You seem to hang tight to the rules (even when you misconstrue them), if not the overriding premise.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"boilermaker" wrote:

The Republic of Boulder is diverse Wink In religion, in hippies, in backgrounds-- but notsomuch socioeconomically....And you know, diverse in sandals. Some wear Birckenstocks, others Tevas, other Keens.... crazy different.

What, no Crocs? Wink That was a fun debate - the fugliness of Crocs....I still own several pairs, however....

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Crocs are a sign one has given up on personal self care.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"Potter75" wrote:

Crocs are a sign one has given up on personal self care.

Don't you think these are at least partly stylish????

Me like....

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

No.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

I freely admit to loving mine. Let the pile-on begin.

Offline
Last seen: 3 years 3 months ago
Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

I can't imagine people caring enough about a strangers footwear to pile on them. I just find them ugly and cheap so don't wear them. Don't care what others do.

boilermaker's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 5 months ago
Joined: 08/21/02
Posts: 1984

I'm a Chaco girl myself. It is a sad time each winter when my Chaco tan lines disappear......usually sometime in early December. Sad

However, I do own two pairs of Crocs. One pair is my shower shoes at the gym for post-workout showers (never out in public...) And my other pair is what I use at house slippers/house shoes. I'm too active around the house to wear "real" slippers, but I don't like anyone to wear shoes in the house. So like Mr. Rogers, I put on Crocs when I get home. Ugly? Yes. But comfy!

My kids went through a Croc phase, and they were/are handy slip on shoes. But they are past that phase now....

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"culturedmom" wrote:

Now you are back peddling because you yourself used the word immigrant while debating the subject. So you knew very well what we were talking about. That said, I would bet my first born that the majority of children who come into the school system without knowing any English were not born here. There might be a very few who come into Kinder not speaking English and were born here though I doubt it. But if that were the case then by 1st grade they would know and it would not be a problem. And most kids in Kinder are learnign language and communication skills anyway.

And since you like reminding everyone that this is a debate board then may I remind you that a debate is about arguing both sides. just comign and saying your peace and then saying "well you said yours and I said mine" is not a debate.

The only reason I brought up that this was a debate board is because there are some people on here who feel the need to be insulting to people for making a spelling error (which we all do). And we did have a debate... I was just trying to be polite and say that I was done with it.

"Claire'sMommy" wrote:

Don't you think these are at least partly stylish????

Me like....

Stylish no... but the flops sure do look comfy!

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 04/10/09
Posts: 781

"Starryblue702" wrote:

The only reason I brought up that this was a debate board is because there are some people on here who feel the need to be insulting to people for making a spelling error (which we all do). And we did have a debate... I was just trying to be polite and say that I was done with it.

As an outsider looking in (I know I know, I wasn't even part of the debate) I read all of the responses and I just noticed that you are a volunteer community host. I assume that is why you are so hard pressed about the rules. In actuality, Blather was not insulting your spelling, she was making a point that I guess you totally missed.

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

As an outsider looking in (I know I know, I wasn't even part of the debate) I read all of the responses and I just noticed that you are a volunteer community host. I assume that is why you are so hard pressed about the rules. In actuality, Blather was not insulting your spelling, she was making a point that I guess you totally missed.

"blather" wrote:

PS. It's spelled barrel. If you start reading more your spelling should improve.

I didn't miss anything, and her point was to be insulting... anyone can see that. I saw a few other posts on this thread where there were misspellings and nothing was said to them. Why? Because something like that just doesn't matter. We all make spelling mistakes on here. The fact that she had to throw mine in my face was insulting to me and I felt that it was not necessary.

Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 03/14/09
Posts: 624

"Starryblue702" wrote:

I didn't miss anything, and her point was to be insulting... anyone can see that. I saw a few other posts on this thread where there were misspellings and nothing was said to them. Why? Because something like that just doesn't matter. We all make spelling mistakes on here. The fact that she had to throw mine in my face was insulting to me and I felt that it was not necessary.

My point was to show your hypocrisy. Also, I did point out an error to someone else who thinks that it is acceptable to legislate other people's English fluency.

You shouldn't think of it as an insult. I usually receive a large fee for my editing services, so think of it as a freebie.

"Starryblue702" wrote:

The problem there is that the parents don't know english themselves, so of course they cannot teach it to their children.

No, actually the problem with multilingual families is precisely the opposite. The problem is that children gravitate toward the language of their peers. Those who practice the Minority-Language-At-Home method are more likely to retain their first or heritage language. Those parents who do as you suggest, give up their mother tongue in favour of the majority language have huge problems when trying to get their children to communicate in the minority language- and those children are deprived of an economic and academic boon.

Despite the fact that America is supposed to be the land of the free, do you suggest that people should be forced to speak a single language in their home?

"Starryblue702" wrote:

This whole argument goes back to immigration, as the people that live here that cannot speak ANY english {sic} are most likely here illegally, because as I stated before, to become a legal U.S. citizen you have to be able to read, speak, and write in english. {sic}

That's quite the assumption.

You do realize there is a category of legal immigrants into which hundreds of thousands of people in America fit, right? You don't have to be either a citizen or an illegal. I am not a citizen of the country I live in, I am a legal resident.

Do you have to speak, read, and write in English to become a US citizen? Did they test you in the womb or after you were born?

There is a test of English proficiency for those naturalizing to the USA, but there is also a waiver for many people.
http://www.uscitizenship.info/articles/the-american-citizenship-process/index.html

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Like I said before, if someone has become a citizen of the U.S. and has children and they want to teach them their native language I'm all for it, but they need to teach them english {sic} as well, as that is America's official language.

No, it's not.

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"blather" wrote:

No, it's not.

It may not be on the federal level, but seeing as 82% of the population of this country speak it, I'd say that makes it the "mother tongue" of this country.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 04/10/09
Posts: 781

From googling, Mandarin Chinese is the most popular language of the world... Shall we convert? I'm sure it's much more sophisticated than American English.

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

From googling, Mandarin Chinese is the most popular language of the world... Shall we convert? I'm sure it's much more sophisticated than American English.

I'm down... I'll be sure to teach it to my kids also though! :bleh:

Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 03/14/09
Posts: 624

頑張

Starryblue702's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 years 8 months ago
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

Oh and Deniz, I love love love the pic of your LO! I don't know if it's new as my work computer tends to block pictures from this site, but I can see it now and it's too cute!

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 04/10/09
Posts: 781

"blather" wrote:

頑張

Awesome!

"Starryblue702" wrote:

Oh and Deniz, I love love love the pic of your LO! I don't know if it's new as my work computer tends to block pictures from this site, but I can see it now and it's too cute!

Thank you! Smile

Offline
Last seen: 1 year 8 months ago
Joined: 03/14/09
Posts: 624

Here's an interesting article. The attitude that people should just learn the majority language at home is really harmful.

ClairesMommy's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 6 months ago
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

"blather" wrote:

Here's an interesting article. The attitude that people should just learn the majority language at home is really harmful.

Yes, good article. We have friends who are Slovakian. They never spoke a word of English to either of their girls at home and the girls are fluent in Slovak. English came later, and they speak it perfectly. So do their parents. Our friends who speak Urdu - same thing. They only spoke Urdu to their kids at home, but the kids (and parents) are also completely fluent in English. Go figure.

wlillie's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 weeks 8 hours ago
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

I don't think anyone is saying to not teach the parent's language, just that it is harmful for both the student and their peers for them to come to school not knowing the language being spoken in the classroom. I personally wish my Grandmother had taught my Mother and her siblings French; they didn't because there was a negative connatation back then for knowing the second language. It would be nice to have had that second language. My best friend is Korean and I know she regrets not being taught the language. I am glad my ancestors took the time to learn the language that despite not being an official language, is definitely the unofficial language of hte land they live in. I *know* it made my life easier to not show up for kindergarten and try to learn to read a language I didn't understand.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it's beneficial to have more than one language in your toolbox. However, we try to pretend like it's not hurting kids today to know this second language (English) and that's just putting your head in the sand. It does cost money to teach those kids English, it does cost time to go slower for those who are struggling to understand during the school day because of the language barrier, it does cost money to have someone available to translate for those who adults who refuse to learn English. There is no doubt in my mind that almost all children will eventually learn the language, but it's at a cost to those around them. This isn't because of something unfixable like a learning disability or something that is really all that big of a deal; it's because the parents often consciously choose to continue speaking their home langauge.

If you take the time to teach both, life is going to be easier not only for your kids, but for those who are dealing with them/you on a daily basis. I saw a lot of people when we lived in Omaha and the kids were constantly having to interpret for their parents. That's not cool. I can't imagine some of the conversations these children were having with other adults that no child should be a part of. It's wrong to expect your child to take the brunt of the learning curve and hope they are always there to take care of your lack of the needed communication skills to survive in the country you've adopted.

culturedmom's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/30/06
Posts: 1131

"wlillie" wrote:

I don't think anyone is saying to not teach the parent's language, just that it is harmful for both the student and their peers for them to come to school not knowing the language being spoken in the classroom. I personally wish my Grandmother had taught my Mother and her siblings French; they didn't because there was a negative connatation back then for knowing the second language. It would be nice to have had that second language. My best friend is Korean and I know she regrets not being taught the language. I am glad my ancestors took the time to learn the language that despite not being an official language, is definitely the unofficial language of hte land they live in. I *know* it made my life easier to not show up for kindergarten and try to learn to read a language I didn't understand.

I don't think anyone disagrees that it's beneficial to have more than one language in your toolbox. However, we try to pretend like it's not hurting kids today to know this second language (English) and that's just putting your head in the sand. It does cost money to teach those kids English, it does cost time to go slower for those who are struggling to understand during the school day because of the language barrier, it does cost money to have someone available to translate for those who adults who refuse to learn English. There is no doubt in my mind that almost all children will eventually learn the language, but it's at a cost to those around them. This isn't because of something unfixable like a learning disability or something that is really all that big of a deal; it's because the parents often consciously choose to continue speaking their home langauge.

If you take the time to teach both, life is going to be easier not only for your kids, but for those who are dealing with them/you on a daily basis. I saw a lot of people when we lived in Omaha and the kids were constantly having to interpret for their parents. That's not cool. I can't imagine some of the conversations these children were having with other adults that no child should be a part of. It's wrong to expect your child to take the brunt of the learning curve and hope they are always there to take care of your lack of the needed communication skills to survive in the country you've adopted.

I would like some proof of the bolded statment other then "I have a friend who is Korean". This is exactlyhow stereotypes and prejudices get started and are perpetuated, by assumptions like these. Yes, I can see why you would feel the way you do if the truth was that immigrant come to this country and refuse to learn English. But that is not the truth and unless you can prove to me otherwise, then I am going to chaulk that kind of statment up to ignorance.

I come from a family of immigrants where I was the first generation born here. My father came here and learned English. My grandmother doesn't speak it very well but she came here when she was in her 30's. How can I blame an adult immigrant for not learning a language when at the same time they are trying to put food on the table, navigate a new cutlure and country, worrying about the family left behind, and raising a child in a new and foreign land? I'm a SAHM and I am trying to learn Japanese with Rosetta Stone and I can barely do it.

So I find it offensive to assume that refugees and immigrants come here and refuse to learn English. That's just not true. And I think it is sad that you perpetuate this based on experiences like "I have a Korean friend" and "I saw these people in Omaha". I would love to know how many languages you have learned as an adult? The fact that the kids you saw in Omaha that were interpreting for their parents proves that they do want their kids to learn English. The fact that they don't speak English does not mean they refuse to speak it (unless you went and asked every adult why they are not speaking English). You draw conclusions off of what you see and create a whole ideaology based on it. That to me is dangerous and unfair.

Pages