Didn't you assume she was talking about federal taxes? People don't get sales tax refunds back. I reiterated this in the very next post.In my experience, people who get irrationally upset about their tax dollars don't pay any (as they get it all back in a refund).
Then Jess said this:
Again, the inference is that we are talking about federal taxes. There are no refunds on sales taxes, mortgage taxes, property taxes, etc.She also didn't say people don't pay any. She did note that most of the time they are getting it back in a refund.
Then I said this (I think my number is high, its more like 47% or 49%. I thought it was very clear I was talking about Americans who don't pay FEDERAL taxes):
Lisa said this. She was talking about paying Federal Taxes:Which I believe as of 2012 is something like 52% of Americans? So it isn't like Blather and I are making up wild assumptions or anything.
You replied with this, stating that you also pay federal taxes:I dont get excited about it but it does bother me. We are a family that does pay taxes (a ton in my opinion) but we also live on a budget. This latest tax increase has definitely pinched our budget, we have about $100 less a month in "discretionary" spending. I would also guess my family is not the only family that does pay taxes and still has to live in a fairly tight budget
Then you said this:You are not. We do, and I know several others. Almost everyone that I know that we are close enough that we know about each others finances makes just enough to not be considered poor and get assistance, but does not make enough that paying $1,000 a month in health insurance or $200 extra a month in taxes is not really a big deal to them.
(which does confuse me, as you are lumping all taxes together)After paying federal income taxes State income taxes (GA), sales tax, and other taxes we pay more in taxes than we got back in a refund.
After Missy was confused and thought I was disputing your budget vs. your federal tax payments, I stated this to clarify
You admitted that you were confused and not just talking about federal taxes:Im not disputing that. I'm saying I don't believe that she pays federal income taxes based on the annual income she states her family of 5 makes.
This is where I (AGAIN) said I was specifically ONLY talking about Federal Income Taxes, like Blather and Jess and others.Gloria's post just made me realise that we might be talking about two different things. I said I paid more in taxes (income, sales, and other taxes) in general than I got back in a return. Not just talking about federal income taxes.
You said this. Which pretty much has nothing to do with my question of do you pay federal income taxes.Do you track your state sales tax for the year? That shocks me. I'm specifically talking about federal income taxes.
I explain myself again here.I was not talking about federal income tax, I was talking about taxes in general. The statement that the people who get upset about how there tax dollars get spent do not pay any taxes (again, paraphrasing) after a refund is not necessarily true. Even if you get a larger refund back than you pay into your federal income tax, you are still paying taxes.
And then you asked this:But again, Blather and I were not talking about people getting upset about how their tax dollars get spent. I get pissed about being what I feel is unfairly taxed in relation to others in our country. I totally understand being angry about how ones tax dollars get spent as we spend a fortune in federal taxes. I just don't get angry about someone spending a buck on a scratch off ticket. I know you don't either. The point was that many people who seem to get the MOST angry about this don't themselves even PAY any federal taxes, which just seems weirdly ironic. My comment to you was just an aside, I was really surprised as you had listed your income in another thread and it seemed almost impossible that at that income level and with three children you would have to pay federal income taxes, is all.
I hope you see why I'm confused that you don't understand that we are talking about FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.Where was it said anywhere that we were only talking about Federal income tax? The statement that someone making what we make could not possibly be paying any taxes is not correct.
I really feel like it was made very clear, many times. And I don't think that I ever said that you could not possibly be paying taxes, simply that I am shocked that you are and maybe you could use some tax planning advise to better avoid them, as it seems like you shouldn't have to be.
OMG. I would love for all of us to get together. Squee!
Um, who's up for a western Canuck get-together? Kyla? mom2robbie? I know we're missing some BC girls - us, krisw? where you at these days?. And some other Canadians too. Where are you guys? We're not representing the way we used to!
Someday soon I hope ftmom! I want to go home.
I have to admit I gave up reading this debate when it got to about page 10 or so, then Missy told me to check out the possibility of a get together....
Anyway. I used to work for the Canadian version of the IRS (for the Canadians reading, I did business taxes so don't always know the total answer to personal stuff). It amazes me what Americans can deduct on their taxes! I wish I could deduct my mortgage interest and such. Some provinces you can deduct your property taxes but not where I am living now. When I was a student I loved claiming my rent and such, with paying no income taxes I got a really nice refund every year...
For us, depending on the province, is what the sales tax is. Federally there is GST (goods and service tax) of 5% that does not apply to everything. Some provinces combine the GST and their provincial sales tax to HST (harmonized sales tax) which seems to apply to more items then GST does - the rates vary between provinces from 13-15%. Some provinces have PST (provincial sales tax) which again varies. As the province I live in has (generally) high revenue due to oil and natural gas we do not have PST. Depending on income/dependents you can get a GST rebate every quarter.
Generally speaking, it does not matter where you live in the world, you will pay more in total taxes (income, sales, property, etc) then you will every be able to deduct/receive refunds for. Taxes is how governments have the money they need for the services they provide and that we as citizens demand.
The original debate was about welfare recipients buying lottery tickets. Now, my degree is in math and knowing statistics I think it is silly to buy lottery tickets. That does not stop me from buying one a few times a year, but I never really expect to win. As a family we do buy a hospital lottery ticket for the hospital where Robbie was in the NICU, while the prizes are nice and it would be cool to win, we never expect to but it is a way for us to give back and for the hospital to get updated equipment etc. The idea that retailers would police welfare recipients on buying tickets is insane, I would hate to be the person having to to figure out if someone was on welfare... Just my 5 cents (with the penny being ended here there is no more 2 cents )
Sean (38 )
Robbie (8 )
Bailey (April 2, 2011)
"The soul always knows what to do to heal itself. The challenge is to silence the mind." Caroline Myss