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Thread: NRA Ad about Obama's Daughters

  1. #81
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Here is the actual source of the stat that I quoted.

    • In 1997 among State inmates
    possessing a gun, fewer than 2%
    bought their firearm at a flea market
    or gun show, about 12% from a retail
    store or pawnshop, and 80% from
    family, friends, a street buy, or an
    illegal source.
    Bureau of Justice Statistics
    Special Report

    http://www.showmasters.us/Firearms%2...0Offenders.pdf
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    Among prisoners who carried a firearm
    during the offense for which they were
    serving time in 1997, 14% had bought
    or traded for the gun from a store,
    pawnshop, flea market, or gun show.
    The 1997 percentage who had
    acquired their firearm at a retail outlet
    represented a significant drop from
    21% in 1991. The percentage of
    inmates receiving their gun from family
    or friends rose from 34% in 1991 to
    40% in 1997store or pawnshop, and 80% from
    family, friends, a street buy, or an
    illegal source.



    That stat only applies to convicted federal felons, Gloria. Even if it were current it wouldn't include people like the Columbine killers (many mass murderers commit suicide), serial killers who have been put to death, the Waco nut jobs, etc of course. Or state inmates. Or people who weren't caught. Or people who lied about where they got their gun. Not to mention that those stats are 15 years old and both gun shows and gun ownership have increased astronomically since then. I also believe that private sales of guns should be illegal, as I mentioned, and it should be required that only federally licensed gun vendors can sell guns. That would make that 80% number that I bolded shrink, I believe. I'm sure you are going to say "but the criminals will do it anyway"......which will just get us back to the questions Alissa asked earlier ~ why do you then support laws banning drugs, or rape, or scamming welfare, or anything, really. No one ever answers that question.

    Tupperware? Parties for Criminals

    In 1986 the National Rifle Association (NRA) unveiled legislation that was nothing less than a pro-gun wish list: "The Firearms Owners Protection Act." Commonly known as "McClure-Volkmer" for its congressional sponsors, then-Senator James McClure (R-ID) and Representative Harold Volkmer (D-MO), it was designed to weaken the primary federal law regulating commerce in firearms and ammunition, the Gun Control Act of 1968. McClure-Volkmer was signed into law by President Reagan on May 19, 1986.
    One legacy of McClure-Volkmer is the uncontrolled proliferation of gun shows-events at which private citizens and federally licensed gun dealers congregate to buy and sell firearms and related paraphernalia. The dramatic increase is largely the consequence of two little-noticed changes McClure-Volkmer made in federal law that have increased the number of gun shows and allowed illegal sales to flourish. The first change made it legal for Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders to operate at gun shows. The second expanded the opportunities for private citizens to buy and sell firearms at gun shows by raising the threshold of what constituted being "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. The result is a readily available source of weapons and ammunition for a wide variety of criminals, including street gangs, white supremacists, would-be presidential assassins, and domestic terrorists.

    How Many Gun Shows?
    Since no recordkeeping requirements apply, no hard numbers exist as to how many gun shows took place before the passage of McClure-Volkmer?the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has no statistics on the number of gun shows prior to 1986. Estimates vary widely as to how many now occur each year. ATF estimates that there are 2,000 gun shows held in the United States each year. However, in contrast, the National Association of Arms Shows puts the estimate at more than 100 gun shows every weekend for a total of 5,200 annually. The Association also estimates that more than five million people attend gun shows each year, generating billions of dollars in sales.
    To obtain some reliable estimate of the effect of McClure-Volkmer on the prevalence of gun shows, the Violence Policy Center conducted a series of interviews with various federal, state, and local law enforcement representatives as well as with gun show promoters. The VPC surveyed a total of 25 individuals in 16 states regarding their experience with gun shows and similar events, such as flea markets. Of those surveyed, 14 offered observations on whether the number of gun shows in their area had increased or decreased. Ten of the 14?or 71 percent?stated that there has been an increase in the volume of gun shows over the past 10 years. Three believed the number of shows had remained constant, and only one said the number had decreased. One regional ATF official queried additional supervisors regarding the number of gun shows in states under their jurisdiction and reported that "several out of my eight supervisors said we definitely had an increase of more than 50 percent in the last 10 years."
    The survey found significant evidence that the number of gun shows has increased significantly as a result of McClure-Volkmer, and that this increase has presented federal, state, and local law enforcement officials with an array of new problems related to illegal firearms trafficking. While the exact number of shows remains uncertain, extensive evidence does exist that they are virtually unregulated, are a key tool for criminal gun traffickers, and function as a common meeting place for criminals.

    Licensed Dealers versus "Hobbyists"
    Problems arose almost immediately when Federal Firearms License holders were allowed to sell at gun shows in direct competition with unlicensed "hobbyists" and "collectors." Licensed dealers were required to follow strict sales criteria under federal law: e.g., federal sales forms, age restrictions, background checks, waiting periods, etc. Unlicensed sellers who, as private citizens, did not have to meet these requirements made a more appealing sales outlet to both the law-abiding (who, like most Americans, prefer not to wait) and the criminal purchaser seeking to avoid a paper trail. These factors combined to create a volatile mix, making gun shows a favored venue for unscrupulous sellers and criminal purchasers. Illegal transactions usually occur in one of three ways: 1) straw-man sales; 2) out-of-state sales; and, 3) sales from "personal" collections.

    Where the Famous and the Infamous Shop
    Gun shows appeal to a wide range of firearm enthusiasts-from hunters and collectors looking for bargains to anti-government militia members preparing for battle against the New World Order.
    Gun shows hold a particular appeal for the pro-gun fringe. Militia members and other extremists attend shows not only to purchase weapons, but also to distribute anti-government materials and recruit new members. As early as 1993 the FBI, ATF, and Arizona Department of Public Safety were warned that Oklahoma City bombing suspect Timothy McVeigh's activities at a gun show raised suspicions that he might be dangerous and warranted investigation. Like his alleged avenger McVeigh, Branch Davidian leader David Koresh also frequented gun shows. The St. Petersburg Times reported that Koresh purchased a large quantity of the weapons stockpiled at Mount Carmel (the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas) from Hewitt Handguns, a Texas gun dealership operated by Karen Kilpatrick with Federal Firearms License holder Henry McMahon. Koresh had picked up their business card at a Texas gun show.
    While McVeigh and Koresh may be two of the best known gun show customers, they are other lesser known but equally discomforting attendees. According to the January 23, 1995 issue of National Review, convicted serial killer Thomas Dillon began his murderous career by killing more than 500 dogs and cats, then moved on to humans?allegedly killing at least five men. In 1989 he announced to a friend that he had quit killing animals and began inviting the friend to attend gun shows with him.

    Again, 86% of Americans disagree with you. 70% of the NRA disagrees with you. I don't really have anything else to say, I guess. It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone would support anything about selling guns to anyone without a background check..........ever. Its crazy. Why would you support that, Gloria? Seriously? Even if it was .05%, why would you want those 100,000 or whatever # that works out to be of guns sold to people with no background check? Why? What freedom do you think that that is supporting?

  3. #83
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    I don't understand thinking it's ever okay for someone to buy a gun without a background check. If it's required, it's required; why should a private sale be any different?
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Again, 86% of Americans disagree with you. 70% of the NRA disagrees with you. I don't really have anything else to say, I guess. It just doesn't make sense to me that anyone would support anything about selling guns to anyone without a background check..........ever. Its crazy. Why would you support that, Gloria? Seriously? Even if it was .05%, why would you want those 100,000 or whatever # that works out to be of guns sold to people with no background check? Why? What freedom do you think that that is supporting?
    The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.
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  5. #85
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    If I own a car and I decide to sell it, should I have to check to make sure someone doesn't have a drunk driving conviction before I sell them my car? Same thing.
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  6. #86
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    You should be selling to someone who has a valid license.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    The 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.

    I don't know how you can say that with a straight face and a clear conscience as a human being. I really don't.
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  8. #88
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I don't know how you can say that with a straight face and a clear conscience as a human being. I really don't.
    Doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I have a gun and I want to give it to my son it is ridiculous to say that I have to do a background check on my own son before I give it to him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I have a gun and I want to give it to my son it is ridiculous to say that I have to do a background check on my own son before I give it to him.

    I don't think that it is. Just like you couldn't just give your son a house, you shouldn't be able to give him a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Doesn't bother me in the slightest. If I have a gun and I want to give it to my son it is ridiculous to say that I have to do a background check on my own son before I give it to him.
    Why is it ridiculous?

    There are plenty of people who wouldn't be able to get a permit for a gun, should it be okay to sell guns to them privately?
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