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  1. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Most people that I know (not in CA) that are loosing their insurance, the new plans that are their "option" cost twice what they were paying before. Sure, better coverage for some people, but not affordable. Taking people that had insurance before choose between not having insurance and paying the fines or going without other necessities to make up the difference.

    In addition, this is not just effecting the individual market. Many businesses had insurance plans that did not meet the new standards as well. Only because it is not an individual market, non of those people's insurance that is changing are eligible to qualify for any subsidies.
    I never said it wasn't changing the group market but your previous link only mentioned the individual market.

    I also can't grasp the whole concept of "sure it's better coverage now but it's not cheaper". Yes, what I look for in insurance is cheap plans with no coverage.
    Mom to Elizabeth (6) and Corinne (4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    I also can't grasp the whole concept of "sure it's better coverage now but it's not cheaper". Yes, what I look for in insurance is cheap plans with no coverage.
    First, Obamacare is not what it was advertised as. I do not believe that if people knew then what they know now that it would have passed. Second, Obamacare was billed as something that was going to lower prices. Not something that was going to double and triple prices. Some you might have the flexibility in your budget to deal with huge increases but not everyone does. The "affordable" care act is not affordable. We were forced to buy something that we did not want and that is broken. I am not alone in my feelings on this. There are a lot of very upset people about how this has all played out.

    ~Bonita~

  3. #293
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    In this discussion can we PLEASE not forget that things did not work before this either? People who couldn't afford insurance and desperately needed it? We already had that. There were plenty of people FORCED to work with a system that could not offer them affordable coverage before....because they were sick of all things ironically.

  4. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    First, Obamacare is not what it was advertised as. I do not believe that if people knew then what they know now that it would have passed. Second, Obamacare was billed as something that was going to lower prices. Not something that was going to double and triple prices. Some you might have the flexibility in your budget to deal with huge increases but not everyone does. The "affordable" care act is not affordable. We were forced to buy something that we did not want and that is broken. I am not alone in my feelings on this. There are a lot of very upset people about how this has all played out.
    Premium costs is only 1 piece of the puzzle. The idea is to drive down all costs but we need everyone in first. I'm willing to bet in the next few years you will get all the coverage that is mandated and seeing premiums go down. It's happening in many places that were close to the coverages that the ACA is looking for. It's not a quick process at all.
    Mom to Elizabeth (6) and Corinne (4)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    In this discussion can we PLEASE not forget that things did not work before this either? People who couldn't afford insurance and desperately needed it? We already had that. There were plenty of people FORCED to work with a system that could not offer them affordable coverage before....because they were sick of all things ironically.
    Aren't there something like 40 million uninsured Americans? It's just inconceivable, the sheer numbers. I just think that the bungled rollout of the ACA/Obamacare is clouding the real issue. I think lots of people are just jumping on that, kind of saying "See?!?! He effed it up/Down with Obama!!!" or whatever. Problem still remains though. Obama or someone else, a real solution for affordable healthcare is missing. But instead of looking backwards and blaming this person or that for the failure of the rollout why aren't people opposed to Obamacare offering up any viable suggestions? I haven't really read any.

  6. #296
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    Not ALL that are uninsured want insurance. Many of the uninsured are young and healthy and don't think they need insurance. These people are still not going to get insurance, they will just pay the penalty instead. Especially since the cost for this group of people that didn't have insurance has gone UP not down.

    78% of uninsured say they won?t sign up for Obamacare

    So Obamacare ruins everyone else's coverage they were happy with to cover a very few that actually wanted insurance and couldn't get it.
    Last edited by GloriaInTX; 11-13-2013 at 02:09 PM.
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  7. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Aren't there something like 40 million uninsured Americans? It's just inconceivable, the sheer numbers. I just think that the bungled rollout of the ACA/Obamacare is clouding the real issue. I think lots of people are just jumping on that, kind of saying "See?!?! He effed it up/Down with Obama!!!" or whatever. Problem still remains though. Obama or someone else, a real solution for affordable healthcare is missing. But instead of looking backwards and blaming this person or that for the failure of the rollout why aren't people opposed to Obamacare offering up any viable suggestions? I haven't really read any.
    That is the catch though. Yes, millions of people will get insurance, but millions are also loosing insurance. You are taking from one group of people and giving it to another group of people. Not creating anything new. This is the thing, it is not just about the roll out. I have confidence that given enough time the website will be fixed. That is not the real issue. Soaring costs and millions loosing their coverage is. Obamacare is not fixing the healthcare crises it is making it worse. Democrats passed this without the support of half the country. They have to accept the fact that now that it is not working out half the country is going to be mad.

    ~Bonita~

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Not ALL that are uninsured want insurance. Many of the uninsured are young and healthy and don't think they need insurance. These people are still not going to get insurance, they will just pay the penalty instead. Especially since the cost for this group of people that didn't have insurance has gone UP not down.

    78% of uninsured say they won?t sign up for Obamacare

    So Obamacare ruins everyone else's coverage they were happy with to cover a very few that actually wanted insurance and couldn't get it.
    Oh i don't think this will be true going forward. The penalty is hefty enough and increases up through 2016. People are still in that annoyed "i hate change" phase and that coupled with the poor roll out surely has inflated those numbers.

    This article puts it well

    There's also the issue of norms. The mandate doesn't work because it costs more than health insurance. It works because people tend to follow the rules and they don't like paying money and getting nothing for it. That's the experience from Massachusetts, where violating the mandate costs much less than purchasing insurance, but almost nobody takes that route. Removing the mandate removes the rule -- and so it removes the sense that going without insurance is breaking the rule.
    The individual mandate’s penalty costs more than you think

  9. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    That is the catch though. Yes, millions of people will get insurance, but millions are also loosing insurance. You are taking from one group of people and giving it to another group of people. Not creating anything new.
    When you say 'millions are losing their insurance'

    are you only counting those who are going to lose what they have and can't get anything else to replace and will have to pay the mandate penalty? Or are you including people who are unhappy about having to switch to something else.

    And if you ask why it matters....its because of the point you are trying to make in bold, which doesn't make sense unless you are talking about a new group of people who will be completely without insurance...period.

    I'd like to see the projections you are taking this from. You can't just point to articles saying 'Millions will lose the insurance they have' unless they say in the article "All those people will not have any insurance afterwards and nothing available to them"

  10. #300
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    Also, there is (I think...at work and don't have the moment to double check) that you can be without insurance for a certain amount of time every year w/o paying penalty.

    I know in Mass. you can have 4 months in the year w/o insurance. Not sure on the federal level.
    Mom to Elizabeth (6) and Corinne (4)

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