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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    When you say 'millions are losing their insurance'

    are you only counting those who are going to lose what they have and can't get anything else to replace and will have to pay the mandate penalty? Or are you including people who are unhappy about having to switch to something else.

    And if you ask why it matters....its because of the point you are trying to make in bold, which doesn't make sense unless you are talking about a new group of people who will be completely without insurance...period.

    I'd like to see the projections you are taking this from. You can't just point to articles saying 'Millions will lose the insurance they have' unless they say in the article "All those people will not have any insurance afterwards and nothing available to them"
    Obamacare was passed on the promise that if you liked your insurance you can keep it. That is not true. Millions are loosing their insurance. People have come back and said "Well you can get this instead", however what they can get instead is VASTLY more expensive then what they had. That is not what the deal was. You are bringing prices up so much that people can not afford it. The price increase is just not acceptable. It might not be a lot in some States that already had strict regulation, but in other States premiums are going up 200-300%. That is just not ok.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    Not ALL that are uninsured want insurance. Many of the uninsured are young and healthy and don't think they need insurance. These people are still not going to get insurance, they will just pay the penalty instead. Especially since the cost for this group of people that didn't have insurance has gone UP not down.

    78% of uninsured say they won?t sign up for Obamacare

    So Obamacare ruins everyone else's coverage they were happy with to cover a very few that actually wanted insurance and couldn't get it.
    Young and healthy doesn't mean jack **** when you get hit by a car, or burned in a fire, or heck, just broke your arm or needed a minor yet necessary operation. And doesn't the penalty still mean that these people, the 'uninsured', will still be afforded medical treatment if needed?

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    Also, there is (I think...at work and don't have the moment to double check) that you can be without insurance for a certain amount of time every year w/o paying penalty.

    I know in Mass. you can have 4 months in the year w/o insurance. Not sure on the federal level.
    But who would want to do that? You still have to be able to take your kids to the doctor. We are talking about people that had insurance that they were happy with, and lost it as a direct result of Obamacare. We are not talking a few dozen people here. We are talking about MILLIONS of people loosing their health insurance.

    ~Bonita~

  4. #304
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Obamacare was passed on the promise that if you liked your insurance you can keep it. That is not true. Millions are loosing their insurance. People have come back and said "Well you can get this instead", however what they can get instead is VASTLY more expensive then what they had. That is not what the deal was. You are bringing prices up so much that people can not afford it. The price increase is just not acceptable. It might not be a lot in some States that already had strict regulation, but in other States premiums are going up 200-300%. That is just not ok.
    Ok, well you didn't answer my question. I'm trying to make a point about words you threw out there as part of this debate. If you are going to say that millions are getting insurance and millions are losing it and its somehow an equal trade off...you need to back that up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Young and healthy doesn't mean jack **** when you get hit by a car, or burned in a fire, or heck, just broke your arm or needed a minor yet necessary operation. And doesn't the penalty still mean that these people, the 'uninsured', will still be afforded medical treatment if needed?
    Yes they will get emergency treatment if they need it. Just like they did before Obamacare. So instead of making insurance more attractive to these people by letting them get a cheap high deductible catastrophic plan because the odds are very much in their favor that they won't need health insurance, Obamacare requires them to pay MORE than what they would have to spend now. Forcing them to pay MORE for something they don't want to buy in the first place is not much of an incentive.
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Ok, well you didn't answer my question. I'm trying to make a point about words you threw out there as part of this debate. If you are going to say that millions are getting insurance and millions are losing it and its somehow an equal trade off...you need to back that up.
    It is a fact that Millions of people have a will loose their insurance through Obamacare. You can see many articles throughout this debate. There have also been articles posted that premiums for many people will increase by 200-300%. The very premise of Obamacare is to take from the young and healthy and give to the sick and elderly. Obamacare makes things worse for millions of people to help a different group of people.

    I will go back an multi quote articles as soon as I post this.

    ~Bonita~

  7. #307
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    It is a fact that Millions of people have a will loose their insurance through Obamacare. You can see many articles throughout this debate. There have also been articles posted that premiums for many people will increase by 200-300%. The very premise of Obamacare is to take from the young and healthy and give to the sick and elderly. Obamacare makes things worse for millions of people to help a different group of people.

    I will go back an multi quote articles as soon as I post this.
    You don't understand what i'm saying. Lisa (and I) point out that there were sick people in desparate need of insurance who couldn't get it. You retorted with "well millions of people are losing their insurance"

    I'm trying to tell you that it is not the same if these people can get other insurance instead of what they are losing.

    You, and others may not like that its not the same exact plan or you have to pay more. But until you can show me that all these people are no longer insurable...your point doesn't make sense! I want to see numbers...its not in any article i saw. I'm not going to take your personal word for it that all that lost their existing insurance aren't going to get anything else to replace it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Ok, well you didn't answer my question. I'm trying to make a point about words you threw out there as part of this debate. If you are going to say that millions are getting insurance and millions are losing it and its somehow an equal trade off...you need to back that up.
    Actually more are losing their insurance than getting insurance. It's not equal.

    Limbaugh pointed out that “there are now 4.8 million policy holders who’ve had their insurance canceled, and the number climbs every day. Let’s round that up to 5 million.”

    Meanwhile, he said, according to the Wall Street Journal, only about 100,000 people have signed up for Obamacare. Furthermore, of that number, only about half have successfully completed their online insurance policy purchase. The rest have merely placed a policy into their website “shopping cart” without buying it.

    “So the real numbers are five million cancellations compared to 50,000 insurance plans bought,” said Limbaugh.

    That would mean 100 policies have been canceled for each new purchase under Obamacare.

    Then Limbaugh noted that most health insurance polices cover spouses and children along with the primary policyholder.

    “So when they say that 4.8 million plans have been canceled,” Limbaugh said, “we may be talking about families of two all the way up to four. The number of people who’ve had their insurance canceled could be three times that number.”

    According to the radio host, that means that the total number of uninsured Americans is now approximately 35 million, up from the 20 million uninsured before Obamacare was signed into law.

    Read more at Obama creating even more uninsured
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  9. #309
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    Obamacare Raising Premiums, Hurting Middle, Lower Class | Washington Free Beacon

    “I can’t pay $800 a month for insurance,” he said in an interview with the Washington Free Beacon.

    “Basically the government is making me choose between paying for my mortgage and buying food and paying for insurance,” he said. “[My wife and I] are both in our 50’s. We have two children. We’re not going to have more children. We don’t need maternity. We don’t see the doctor that much. We don’t use medication.”

    “There’s no way we can pay that and live.”

    Yes, there were many people that could not get insurance before. Now there are many people that HAD insurance before that lost it, and it is being replaced by something MUCH more expensive that they can not afford. It does not matter if there is an alternative if they can not afford it.

    ~Bonita~

  10. #310
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    The very premise of Obamacare is to take from the young and healthy and give to the sick and elderly
    I REALLY wish people would stop saying this! That is the premise of insurance.

    And the reason why insurance wasnt' working for the sick before is because not enough healthy people paid into it!

    If you don't want any system and you jsut want to pay for everything out of pocket..then lobby for that, but otherwise stop complaining about this! Insurance has been a concept that existed LOOOOOONG before the word Obamacare was invented.

    How many times do we have to go over this point.

    Insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Principles[edit]
    Insurance involves pooling funds from many insured entities (known as exposures) to pay for the losses that some may incur. The insured entities are therefore protected from risk for a fee, with the fee being dependent upon the frequency and severity of the event occurring. In order to be an insurable risk, the risk insured against must meet certain characteristics. Insurance as a financial intermediary is a commercial enterprise and a major part of the financial services industry, but individual entities can also self-insure through saving money for possible future losses.[1]
    In case you don't understand what the bold means when it comes to health insurance....it means that healthy people pay for the sick!
    Jessica80 and ClairesMommy like this.

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