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  1. #351
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    People could buy insurance before but it was too expensive for some people.

    People's insurance that is being cancelled can choose to buy new insurance but it is too expensive.

    Having the ability to buy insurance does not mean that you can afford to do so. This law does nothing to help that. It just changes who can't buy or that it is a burden to buy insurance.
    Well there are parts of hte law that are meant to lower hte cots of healthcare for everyone

    but you haven't given it a chance to even see it yet because its only just started

    And you are unhappy because we distributed the affordability issue over a larger group of people instead of just the sick and made it so that the sick...those who need it the most can have lower costs than the outrageous costs that they used to have?

    interesting. ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    but you haven't given it a chance to even see it yet because its only just started
    Every single person I know personally and have talked to about this that knows what their insurance will be for next year, their coverage is worse and their costs are higher. Most people are not willing to have less money to put food on the table for their children so that someone they never met can get health insurance when they had options to work with before.
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    ~Bonita~

  3. #353
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=AlyssaEimers;9109548]Every single person I know personally and have talked to about this that knows what their insurance will be for next year, their coverage is worse and their costs are higher.[quote]

    Sorry Bonita but i don't believe that one bit. Cost higher? yes, Coverage worse? No. It is likely that they were unaware of what their plan DIDN'T cover. Don't take offense please when i say that your anecdotal personal account from your friends are not reliable particularly for use as proof in a debate. Not because they specifically come from you, but just because there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding in general about these changes....and well, because your sample size is a poor representation of our nation, thats a statistics and research issue.


    Most people are not willing to have less money to put food on the table for their children so that someone they never met can get health insurance when they had options to work with before.
    Stop talking about old options that people liked as if they were adequate or good for our nation. In Obama's speech today he made an analogy to seat belt requirements in cars...and how they caused the cost to rise when the requirement was made and then people didn't like it because they had to pay more for their cars. By your logic, because people were happy with the old cheaper setbelt-less cars..that meant it was good for society. Plans were cancelled because they did not meet requirments

    But you know...dont' worry too much, if your insurer coopersates, you can keep your crappy plans for another year now! Just hope nothing terrible happens to you in that year. (not you specifically....all the people who love their crappy plans)

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Sorry Bonita but i don't believe that one bit. Cost higher? yes, Coverage worse? No. It is likely that they were unaware of what their plan DIDN'T cover. Don't take offense please when i say that your anecdotal personal account from your friends are not reliable particularly for use as proof in a debate. Not because they specifically come from you, but just because there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding in general about these changes....and well, because your sample size is a poor representation of our nation, thats a statistics and research issue.
    Top hospitals opt out of Obamacare ? Watchdog.org -
    Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare - US News and World Report
    Hospitals reject six ObamaCare plans | New York Post

    Just one area where people with Obamacare will not get the same care as people with private insurance.

    I do know that already happens to some degree. For example, there are two main children's after hours urgent care centers in my city. One only excepts people with private insurance or who are willing to pay out of pocket. It is a wonderful place where my children have received wonderful care. The other place accepts any insurance including TNcare. Their waiting rooms are packed and the care is just not the same. They are full of all of the poor people. With some of the Obamacare plans (not every plan, the plans ending in E I believe) there will only be 3 hospitals in all of East TN that will accept them. That is one hospital in Knoxville, one hospital in Chattanooga, and one other hospital. There is no other way to spin it than it is less coverage. It is coverage and I would much rather have somewhere to go in an emergency than no where, but it is paying more for receiving less.

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  5. #355
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Sorry Bonita but i don't believe that one bit. Cost higher? yes, Coverage worse? No. It is likely that they were unaware of what their plan DIDN'T cover. Don't take offense please when i say that your anecdotal personal account from your friends are not reliable particularly for use as proof in a debate. Not because they specifically come from you, but just because there is so much misinformation and misunderstanding in general about these changes....and well, because your sample size is a poor representation of our nation, thats a statistics and research issue.
    Yes there are absolutely people that will pay more for worse coverage because they are paying for things they don't need. A single man is now required to have maternity insurance. He will pay more for that policy and it doesn't help his coverage one bit. So yes I would call that higher cost for worse coverage.
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  6. #356
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    Bonita,

    2 of the articles you posted, I read the very beginnings, it's because the plans (offered through private insurance like Aetna) already do not have a contract with these facilities.

    Headlines are misleading.
    Mom to Elizabeth (6) and Corinne (4)

  7. #357
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Top hospitals opt out of Obamacare ? Watchdog.org -
    Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare - US News and World Report
    Hospitals reject six ObamaCare plans | New York Post

    Just one area where people with Obamacare will not get the same care as people with private insurance.

    I do know that already happens to some degree. For example, there are two main children's after hours urgent care centers in my city. One only excepts people with private insurance or who are willing to pay out of pocket. It is a wonderful place where my children have received wonderful care. The other place accepts any insurance including TNcare. Their waiting rooms are packed and the care is just not the same. They are full of all of the poor people. With some of the Obamacare plans (not every plan, the plans ending in E I believe) there will only be 3 hospitals in all of East TN that will accept them. That is one hospital in Knoxville, one hospital in Chattanooga, and one other hospital. There is no other way to spin it than it is less coverage. It is coverage and I would much rather have somewhere to go in an emergency than no where, but it is paying more for receiving less.
    Well, where do you expect them to go when they're turned away from other hospitals? And from the article you quoted:

    Regulations driven by the Obama White House indeed have made insurance more affordable – if, like Kathleen Sebelius, you’re looking only at price. But responding to Obamacare caps on premiums, many insurers will, in turn, simply offer top-tier doctors and hospitals far less cash for services rendered.
    This is the problem with your system. Doctors are paid more or less by the plan the patient has, so why in the hell would a hospital accept anything BUT a top-level plan? In a single payer system the doctor is paid the same, across the board, no matter what kind of policy the patient has. Until your hospitals stop functioning at the front line care level like corporations nothing is going to improve, with or without Obamacare.

  8. #358
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    During all of the furor over the website not working, this problem has been kind of overlooked. Just another strike against Obamacare that could cause it to unravel. Some are saying this problem could be the death knell because they can't fix it without going back through congress.

    If computer glitches are not enough of a problem, President Obama's healthcare law also has a legal glitch that critics say could cause it to unravel in more than half the nation.

    The Affordable Care Act proposes to make health insurance affordable to millions of low-income Americans by offering them tax credits to help cover the cost. To receive the credit, the law twice says they must buy insurance "through an exchange established by the state."

    But 36 states have decided against opening exchanges for now. Although the law permits the federal government to open exchanges instead, it does not say tax credits may be given to those who buy insurance through a federally run exchange.

    Apparently no one noticed this when the long and complicated bill worked its way through the House and Senate. Last year, however, the Internal Revenue Service tried to remedy it by putting out a regulation that redefined "exchange" to include a "federally facilitated exchange." This is "consistent with the language, purpose and structure … of the act as a whole," the Treasury Department said.

    But critics of the law have seized on the glitch. They have filed four lawsuits that urge judges to rule the Obama administration must abide by the strict wording of the law, even if doing so dismantles it in nearly two-thirds of the states. And the Obama administration has no hope of repairing the glitch by legislation as long as the Republicans control the House.

    This week, U.S. District Judge Paul Friedman in Washington, a President Clinton appointee, refused the administration's request to dismiss the suit. Instead, he said the challengers had put forward a substantial claim, and he promised to issue a written ruling.

    "This is a problem," said Timothy Jost, a law professor at Washington and Lee University. "This case could have legs," although "it was never the intent of Congress to establish federal exchanges that can't do anything. They were supposed to have exactly the same powers."

    Michael Carvin, the Washington lawyer leading the challenge, says the wording of the law is what counts. "This is a question of whether you believe in the rule of law. And the language here is as clear as it could possibly be," he said.
    Full Article
    More legal trouble for Affordable Care Act - latimes.com
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    That is interesting Gloria.

    Today I spent the whole day at different doctors. My urologist and I were talking about the next step in care and I asked him if he would be accepting my new insurance. He said he believed so, but that I should call and check anyway. He took the opportunity to say what a mess the situation was and that he was hoping the whole thing would be repealed.

    ~Bonita~

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