OT - Anyone else agonizing over tomorrow?

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KimPossible's picture
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OT - Anyone else agonizing over tomorrow?

Because I am.

Can't wait until this is over!

AlyssaEimers's picture
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DH is. He will not talk about anything else. I am so ready for this to be over. I have done my best to say that the world is not going to come to a crashing end if his candidate does not win, but I am afraid he will be seriously depressed if Obama wins.

KimPossible's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

DH is. He will not talk about anything else. I am so ready for this to be over. I have done my best to say that the world is not going to come to a crashing end if his candidate does not win, but I am afraid he will be seriously depressed if Obama wins.

Yeah...now that election day is almost upon us, a lot of my FB friends have come out with a different message. Basically saying that as long as we are so divided as a country, that it doesn't really matter who wins, we will accomplish nothing.

I wonder how we fix that though.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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We talked about that last night. That no matter who wins, half the country is going to be super upset. I think that is going to happen any time you have a candidate that is far to either the right or the left. Ideally someone who was more in the middle would be able to unite the country.

Rivergallery's picture
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I am ready for the election just to happen already. Looks like it will be a tight race. I hope it isn't tight, and that in each state there is an obvious winner, I really don't want a "hanging chads" repeat. My worry is that in some states the electoral college may go against the popular vote.

I am worried if my opponent gets elected, because of what his views are, and the legislation coming down the pipe, both federally and internationally from the UN. If they pass and get in acted it will dramatically change our way of life. Causing things we do now to be illegal. I unfortunately have been running across a lot of these "bills" lately, things even from the Clinton admin that were executive order that I never knew about. Wish some would have been overturned by subsequent admins. It seems as society in the US is getting farther and father away from what my views are for the country, it is sad to me. I pray daily for our leaders, for Godly wisdom, and know that regardless of HOW things go, in my religious beliefs, God will work it all out. Maybe not how I want, but in an eternal manner for his glory.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I'm super nervous about it. Like Bonita, I try to keep telling myself that the world will not come crashing to a halt if my candidate loses, but I can't help but worry.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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How to Avoid Political and Election Talk on Facebook and Twitter - ABC News

Haha. Just saw this. I share a FB account with DH and he would never go for this because he has become obsessed, but I would love it Smile

boilermaker's picture
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I figure we survived Bush/Cheney. How much worse can it be? *sigh*

But ready for it be over, but nervous, too. Try as I might, I am not succeeding at embracing the other side.

Spacers's picture
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"Rivergallery" wrote:

My worry is that in some states the electoral college may go against the popular vote.

Back in 2000 I was actually hoping for this very thing to happen. :oops: I really hoped that a couple of independent-minded electors would say, "Gore clearly won the popular vote and I truly believe that, without a full recount in Florida, the American voters have no faith in the electoral votes from Florida, so I'm going to give my electoral vote to Gore." I sincerely hope that, whoever wins, there aren't any serious questions about it.

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"Spacers" wrote:

I sincerely hope that, whoever wins, there aren't any serious questions about it.

I feel like there definitely will be though, no matter who wins. If Obama wins, the right will keep squawking about voter fraud. If Romney wins, the left will keep squawking about voter suppression. It gives me a headache just thinking about all of the collective teeth gnashing and hand wringing and finger pointing and pundit explaining BS that will happen no matter what happens tomorrow.

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Yes I am really nervous. I do remember the day and night of elections last time. I also remember how hard I cried just because a black person won. I was just so proud and so happy. I saved the next mornings newspaper.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"myyams" wrote:

Yes I am really nervous. I do remember the day and night of elections last time. I also remember how hard I cried just because a black person won. I was just so proud and so happy. I saved the next mornings newspaper.

LMAO!!!! You should have seen my eyes go wide when I read the line "how hard I cried just because a black person won." LMAO I thought you were talking about the kind of crying I did in 2004 when GWB got a second term (the very opposite of happy tears!)

You know what made me really really happy about specifically having a black president? I love the idea that to our kids, the idea of a black president won't even be new or controversial or special. To them, it already happened, it happens, it's no big deal if you're black or white, you can be president, what's the big deal....I hope so anyway. I love that, like maybe they won't even realize what a huge deal it was because they don't know a world where black people can't be president. Now we need to add First Woman President to that list. Smile

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

LMAO!!!! You should have seen my eyes go wide when I read the line "how hard I cried just because a black person won."

Haha. Me too. I was quite shocked until I read it again.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

You know what made me really really happy about specifically having a black president? I love the idea that to our kids, the idea of a black president won't even be new or controversial or special. To them, it already happened, it happens, it's no big deal if you're black or white, you can be president, what's the big deal....I hope so anyway. I love that, like maybe they won't even realize what a huge deal it was because they don't know a world where black people can't be president. Now we need to add First Woman President to that list. Smile

I think the true defining moment that racism no longer exists will be when we vote Obama out not because of the color of his skin, but the content of his character.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I think the true defining moment that racism no longer exists will be when we vote Obama out not because of the color of his skin, but the content of his character.

Wow. I didn't vote for him because of the color of his skin. I voted for him because he was and is the closer representative to the things that I want to see done with government.

I love that my kids won't think it's a big deal to have a black president, but that's not the reason I voted for him.

Just like I wouldn't vote for just any lady for president or VP. I want to see a woman in the White House, but I would have never voted for a woman like Sarah Palin. The first and most important thing is still the platform they are running on, and whether or not I agree with it.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I think the true defining moment that racism no longer exists will be when we vote Obama out not because of the color of his skin, but the content of his character.

Unfortunately i think there are people who didn't vote for him because he is black and won't vote for him again this time around because he is black(or because his middle name is Hussein), even if they won't admit it or don't even realize the effect of their prejudice on their opinion of him.

Not saying everyone, but too many.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

I think the true defining moment that racism no longer exists will be when we vote Obama out not because of the color of his skin, but the content of his character.

Or when we don't vote for Romney simply because he's white but because he won't tell us how he plans to balance the budget while cutting taxes to the richest of the rich, and because he wants to control *my* reproductive rights, and because he doesn't believe in gay marriage so no one else should, either.

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"KimPossible" wrote:

Unfortunately i think there are people who didn't vote for him because he is black and won't vote for him again this time around because he is black(or because his middle name is Hussein), even if they won't admit it or don't even realize the effect of their prejudice on their opinion of him.

Not saying everyone, but too many.

Obviously there were more that did vote for him because he was black than didn't vote for him because he was black. That might not have been the only reason, but there were a lot of people that wanted to get on the bandwagon of making history by voting in the first black president. This election is much more meaningful because people are voting for/against him based on what he has done.

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"Spacers" wrote:

Or when we don't vote for Romney simply because he's white but because he won't tell us how he plans to balance the budget while cutting taxes to the richest of the rich, and because he wants to control *my* reproductive rights, and because he doesn't believe in gay marriage so no one else should, either.

Absolutely I have no doubt those are your reasons. As they should be.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Obviously there were more that did vote for him because he was black than didn't vote for him because he was black. That might not have been the only reason, but there were a lot of people that wanted to get on the bandwagon of making history by voting in the first black president. This election is much more meaningful because people are voting for/against him based on what he has done.

Cite? I would love to know what percentage of people you think supported him simply because he was black.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Cite? I would love to know what percentage of people you think supported him simply because he was black.

A stunning 54 percent of young white voters supported Obama, compared with 44 percent who went for McCain, the senator from Arizona. In the past three decades, no Democratic presidential nominee has won more than 45 percent of young whites.

Exit polls: How Obama won - David Paul Kuhn - POLITICO.com

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Okay, so you're saying that had to be because he's black and not for any other reason, like maybe because voters (young and old) were completely sick of the Republican policies that got us into two endless wars and also sent us into financial ruin? That's condescending.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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I personally know people who have told me they voted for Obama only because he was black. I am not saying that everyone did that, but I know people who did. I do not think that will be as much of an issue in this election. The excitement of the first Black President has worn off, and I believe he will be judged on the past four years, and not because he is black.

ETA - I am talking about Republicans that had voted Republican all their life.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Bonita - I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you a recent Esquire poll that reported that 26% of people personally knew someone who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black (to be fair, another 13% said they knew someone who wouldn't vote for Mitt because he's Mormon, so all of the "isms" are alive and well in the country in 2012. Lol

Esquire Yahoo Poll - Full Results of Esquire Yahoo News Election Poll - Esquire

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Bonita - I'll see your anecdotal evidence and raise you a recent Esquire poll that reported that 26% of people personally knew someone who wouldn't vote for Obama just because he's black (to be fair, another 13% said they knew someone who wouldn't vote for Mitt because he's Mormon, so all of the "isms" are alive and well in the country in 2012. Lol

Esquire Yahoo Poll - Full Results of Esquire Yahoo News Election Poll - Esquire

I am sure there are plenty of people who voted for him just because he was black, and many who did not vote for him just because he was black. What I think what Gloria was saying was, wouldn't it be a great day if it did not matter? The color of someone's skin was just that, a color?

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I agree it shouldn't matter. I bristled at Gloria's suggestion that a lot of people voted for him BECAUSE he's black and that's it. I think that is an amazingly condescending position to take.

mom3girls's picture
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I dont think it has to be a condescending POV. I know people that were excited to vote for him because he was black, they were excited to be part of history. I did not vote for him, major disagreement on which direction the country should go, but I was excited to have a black person in the WH. I love that it was during my lifetime. I also hope to see a woman in there in my lifetime. But more then anything I hope someday to be able to vote for the right person without the subject of color or gender coming up

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How does a simple debate about how we feel about tomorrow coming and going turn into...this?

Why does this have to happen every time???

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Forgot to answer the question.

I'm not agonizing. I just want to vote and get it done and move on.

I hope who I'm voting for wins. I'm at the point that if it isn't then I'm not going to be a turd and cry over it. I'm hoping that if the other candidate wins that they prove my doubts wrong.

smsturner's picture
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"Jessica80" wrote:

How does a simple debate about how we feel about tomorrow coming and going turn into...this?

Why does this have to happen every time???

AMEN. lol

I'm so ready for the end of this election. Not because I believe in anything less, but I think at this point, there is no more arguing to be had. People have made their decision and I'm pretty sure there aren't too many undecideds out there right now. Unfortunately, it's close...so who knows when they will actually be done counting etc... How long did that take with Gore back then?

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I do really hope that they dont try to call it early. I hope to see them really take the time to do all the counting and make sure it is accurate

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Rofl!!

Yeah i didnt vote for anyone based on skin color. Lol. But i was just so happy that people apparently as a whole did not vote against him just because he is black. It just felt like real progress was written in the books.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Exit polls: How Obama won - David Paul Kuhn - POLITICO.com

Perhaps black people turned out in higher numbers and found someone they feel is representing them

Plus the article points out that young white voters voted Demo in the highest amount since 1976. And imagine it was easier for their agw group to vote for him since they are young and perhaps not locked in racial prejudices as much as the older people.

KimPossible's picture
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I've done my part and voted this AM!

Still agonizing.

My kids asked me if I could only have one vote go my way, Yes on 1 (Marriage Equality) or the Presidential Election...which one would i want. At the time i couldn't decide. But now that i think about it more, i think i want Yes on 1 more. I mean i want both REALLY badly, but when it comes down to it, i think Yes on 1 is more important.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Kim, that would be a tough one. I think I would pick Marriage Equality too....except that Mitt's Administration would probably work to make some overarching federal law against marriage equality....:p

I did mail in voting this year, and I checked online to make sure that they received both mine and DH's ballots. They did, so we are good to go.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Kim, that would be a tough one. I think I would pick Marriage Equality too....except that Mitt's Administration would probably work to make some overarching federal law against marriage equality....:p

I did mail in voting this year, and I checked online to make sure that they received both mine and DH's ballots. They did, so we are good to go.

No one really knows what a candidate will do until he is in office, but I do not think Romney would be a strong social conservative. I do not believe he would try to ban SSM or abortion. I think many social conservatives are voting for him because he is better than the alternative, not because anyone thinks Romney is a social conservative.

ClairesMommy's picture
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When do the polls officially close? Canada is like totally pro-Obama, btw ;), at least that's the overwhelming sentiment.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

No one really knows what a candidate will do until he is in office, but I do not think Romney would be a strong social conservative. I do not believe he would try to ban SSM or abortion. I think many social conservatives are voting for him because he is better than the alternative, not because anyone thinks Romney is a social conservative.

Isn't it funny how your perspective changes depending on where you personally stand? I totally do see Romney as a social conservative who would limit abortion except in the cases of incest, rape, and the life of the mother, and who is against SSM. I figure at the very least he will appoint a couple of severely conservative SC Justices who will overturn RvW and affirm the constitutionality of a SSM ban should it reach the high courts (and I think it will.)

On the other hand, I have heard a lot of talk about what an extreme liberal Obama is, but actually, to me and to most of the liberal friends I have, he is really not super liberal. I see him as a moderate, to the right of me. He extended the Bush tax cuts, he let single payer health care die a quick death, he only just came out in support of gay marriage, he continued the war in Afghanistan, et cetera. Those are all policies that are in direct opposition of the typical liberal stance. But, as you stated, he was and is closer to my political ideals than his opposition, so he was the better choice for me.

It's just kind of funny how far apart our perceptions are. Smile

GloriaInTX's picture
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"myyams" wrote:

Perhaps black people turned out in higher numbers and found someone they feel is representing them

Plus the article points out that young white voters voted Demo in the highest amount since 1976. And imagine it was easier for their agw group to vote for him since they are young and perhaps not locked in racial prejudices as much as the older people.

I would buy that if the numbers had been a little closer... but 9 points higer than the last 30 years? Some coincidence. I am not saying that was the only reason, there were other factors involved. But there were plenty of Republicans that voted for him because they wanted to vote for the first black president. If we had a stronger candidate that year it might have been different

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I love how when the black dude wins, it can't be because people responded to his message, or even just that they were sick of the other party as often happens in politics....it has to be just some kind of reverse racism affirmative action thing where people just wanted to vote for a black guy.

I do understand what people are saying about being happy and excited to vote for the first black president. I was too, but that wasn't why I voted for him. If it had been a white guy up against Herman Cain (for example) there is no way I would have voted for Herman Cain, black white or purple. I was happy and excited to be voting for a black guy that I liked and who shared more of my political ideals.

Again, I would love to see a woman president, and will be happy and excited to vote for the first woman president IF she shares my political values, but I would vote for just about anybody (Mitt Romney included) before I would vote for Michelle Bachmann. Gloria, I assume that you would also be excited to see the first woman president if she shared your values, but you'd probably never vote for Nancy Pelosi, right? It's the same thing.

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I wouldn't call them very good Republicans then if the minute a black Democrat runs for President they vote just because of some stupid factor like race.

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"ClairesMommy" wrote:

When do the polls officially close? Canada is like totally pro-Obama, btw ;), at least that's the overwhelming sentiment.

I'm pretty sure it differs from place to place. Sometime in the evening lol.

Internationally, people are overwhelmingly in favor of Obama over Romney!

(And please no one point out an article discussing a specific group is not....preemptively i am pointing out that i did not say *everyone* is.)

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I love how when the black dude wins, it can't be because people responded to his message, or even just that they were sick of the other party as often happens in politics....it has to be just some kind of reverse racism affirmative action thing where people just wanted to vote for a black guy.

I do understand what people are saying about being happy and excited to vote for the first black president. I was too, but that wasn't why I voted for him. If it had been a white guy up against Herman Cain (for example) there is no way I would have voted for Herman Cain, black white or purple. I was happy and excited to be voting for a black guy that I liked and who shared more of my political ideals.

Again, I would love to see a woman president, and will be happy and excited to vote for the first woman president IF she shares my political values, but I would vote for just about anybody (Mitt Romney included) before I would vote for Michelle Bachmann. Gloria, I assume that you would also be excited to see the first woman president if she shared your values, but you'd probably never vote for Nancy Pelosi, right? It's the same thing.

I'm not saying that you did. I didn't vote for him for the very reasons you voted for him, I don't care one bit what color he is. But there were people that did and it is a little naive to say there weren't. It might not have been the ONLY reason but it was definitely a factor.

KimPossible's picture
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All i had an issue with is the statement that "More people voted FOR obama mainly because he was black than people who didn't vote for obama mainly because he was black"

There is simply no way to know if thats true.

smsturner's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Again, I would love to see a woman president, and will be happy and excited to vote for the first woman president IF she shares my political values, but I would vote for just about anybody (Mitt Romney included) before I would vote for Michelle Bachmann. Gloria, I assume that you would also be excited to see the first woman president if she shared your values, but you'd probably never vote for Nancy Pelosi, right? It's the same thing.

Yay. When Hillary started, I was so excited a few years ago. I think she would have been amazing. I'm still bummed she didn't make it! And good lord, I'm just thrilled that Palin seems out of the picture. I'm disgusted at how many years she set back women in politics. Blah.

"ClairesMommy" wrote:

When do the polls officially close? Canada is like totally pro-Obama, btw ;), at least that's the overwhelming sentiment.

I've seen that most of the world is. Maybe that should tell us something??

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"KimPossible" wrote:

All i had an issue with is the statement that "More people voted FOR obama mainly because he was black than people who didn't vote for obama mainly because he was black"

There is simply no way to know if thats true.

Well he won so its a pretty good assumption Smile

boilermaker's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Well he won so its a pretty good assumption Smile

No-- it is a terrible assumption with no facts to prove it to be true. You have correlation and causation confused.

That is like me saying I have the powers to make the sun rise and then saying, "See! The sun came up. I did it. Go me!"

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Isn't it funny how your perspective changes depending on where you personally stand? I totally do see Romney as a social conservative who would limit abortion except in the cases of incest, rape, and the life of the mother, and who is against SSM. I figure at the very least he will appoint a couple of severely conservative SC Justices who will overturn RvW and affirm the constitutionality of a SSM ban should it reach the high courts (and I think it will.)

On the other hand, I have heard a lot of talk about what an extreme liberal Obama is, but actually, to me and to most of the liberal friends I have, he is really not super liberal. I see him as a moderate, to the right of me. He extended the Bush tax cuts, he let single payer health care die a quick death, he only just came out in support of gay marriage, he continued the war in Afghanistan, et cetera. Those are all policies that are in direct opposition of the typical liberal stance. But, as you stated, he was and is closer to my political ideals than his opposition, so he was the better choice for me.

It's just kind of funny how far apart our perceptions are. Smile

It is interesting. I think of Obama as just about as liberal as you can get. I see from this board that I just don't know a lot of really liberal people.

Romney is definitely not socially conservative. He was pro-choice before he had a desire to run for office and just yesterday an article came out that his sister said he will definitely not ban abortion. She was very pro-abortion. I think Ryan is a social conservative, but Romney is not. I went to a conservative Christian college, so I have hundreds of people on my FB wall that are socially conservative. I would say 95% of them would not say Romney is socially conservative.

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"Jessica80" wrote:

I wouldn't call them very good Republicans then if the minute a black Democrat runs for President they vote just because of some stupid factor like race.

I think many black people felt they had to vote for Obama and they would be turning their back on their culture if they did not. I live in a predominantly black area. I have said here before if my kids went to the schools they were zoned for they would be the only white children in their class. Maybe not all over the country, but here, there was a fair amount of "If you do not vote for Obama, than you are not really black".

It is a valid point that race was not the only factor. If the candidate was horrible, it would have been harder, but race did play an effect. If all of Obama's views were just the same, but the only difference was that he was a middle aged white man. I do not believe he would have stood a chance.

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"KimPossible" wrote:

Internationally, people are overwhelmingly in favor of Obama over Romney!

Do you have anything to back that up? I find it very hard to believe without some sort of backing.

smsturner's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Do you have anything to back that up? I find it very hard to believe without some sort of backing.

There is a ton to back it up.
World wants Obama to win US election | Joseph Stiglitz | Business | guardian.co.uk

Why the world wants Obama to win - The Week

And that is seriously just a couple....

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