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  1. #11
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftmom View Post
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    The problem I see with a cap on missed days, is it punishes a sick child which I dont think is fair.
    Well yes, but if you have missed school and are too far behind then something must be done. Sure its unfair that its due to illness but life is unfair sometimes.

    Also, there has been a lot of research on how it is detrimental to kids to remove them from their peer group by keeping them back, or moving them up a grade. I think there is times it is worth it, but it would make it much harder for a child who has been out sick for a long period of time to integrate back into the classroom.
    To me this is a different debate. This is "what do you decide needs to be done after you have determined that too much school is missed" I think the cap on missed days is fine. If you miss school and are behind, it doesn't really matter if its due to illness or not, you need to catch back up! Its still common here to keep kids back a grade, if we ever switched to a different model, i would be open to that, but that doesn't really effect this idea of a "missed days cap"

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    The board is a mess for me, on & off...fine one minute, a mess the next. I think it's the wallpaper ads.

    I certainly think a cap makes sense, but if a kid is in school most of the time and then the parents want to take him/her out for a few days or a week, and the homework gets done, it's not a big deal. It seems a shame to miss out on travel, special days, etc. just because of a rigid rule.

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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    The schools lose money when a child is not present or has an excused absense. If you are going to pull your child from school for a non-excusable reason, and for a significant period of time (more than a week or two), then I do think you should have to pay a fine to make up that lost revenue because everything else is still in place -- teachers, staff, building, electricity -- and those fixed costs don't go down because children are absent. Whenever we take a long weekend for camping or other family activity, we call our kids in sick so the absence is excused and the school doesn't lose money.

    That said, ITA that learning can take place outside of school, and ITA that family time is as important as school time. The principal should have flexibility to excuse a reasonable absense that would otherwise be unexcused, and the parents should be willing to take classwork along so that their child doesn't get behind. My sister missed a couple of good portions of her kindergarten year due to various hospitalizations, but her teacher sent home classwork and we did it with her at the hospital, so she stayed on track and moved to first grade on time. That was very reasonable, and that's how it should work. More recently, our school district changed the semester structure so summer break was a week shorter than it had been in the past, and many families who had made travel plans in advance discovered that they were coming back a week after school started. To make matters worse, our school district has a policy that if a student doesn't attend the first week, they will lose their place at that school! Everyone was panicked but thankfully the district waived that policy for anyone who got in touch with the principal ahead of time, and the absences were marked as excused. It wasn't the parents' fault that the district changed things so late.
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  4. #14
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    The schools lose money when a child is not present or has an excused absense. If you are going to pull your child from school for a non-excusable reason, and for a significant period of time (more than a week or two), then I do think you should have to pay a fine to make up that lost revenue because everything else is still in place -- teachers, staff, building, electricity -- and those fixed costs don't go down because children are absent. Whenever we take a long weekend for camping or other family activity, we call our kids in sick so the absence is excused and the school doesn't lose money.

    That said, ITA that learning can take place outside of school, and ITA that family time is as important as school time. The principal should have flexibility to excuse a reasonable absense that would otherwise be unexcused, and the parents should be willing to take classwork along so that their child doesn't get behind. My sister missed a couple of good portions of her kindergarten year due to various hospitalizations, but her teacher sent home classwork and we did it with her at the hospital, so she stayed on track and moved to first grade on time. That was very reasonable, and that's how it should work. More recently, our school district changed the semester structure so summer break was a week shorter than it had been in the past, and many families who had made travel plans in advance discovered that they were coming back a week after school started. To make matters worse, our school district has a policy that if a student doesn't attend the first week, they will lose their place at that school! Everyone was panicked but thankfully the district waived that policy for anyone who got in touch with the principal ahead of time, and the absences were marked as excused. It wasn't the parents' fault that the district changed things so late.

    I'm pretty sure school funding being affected by attendance statistics is a state to state thing. I tried to find info on this for my own state but its not easy to find...at least super quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    The schools lose money when a child is not present or has an excused absense. If you are going to pull your child from school for a non-excusable reason, and for a significant period of time (more than a week or two), then I do think you should have to pay a fine to make up that lost revenue because everything else is still in place -- teachers, staff, building, electricity -- and those fixed costs don't go down because children are absent. Whenever we take a long weekend for camping or other family activity, we call our kids in sick so the absence is excused and the school doesn't lose money.

    That said, ITA that learning can take place outside of school, and ITA that family time is as important as school time. The principal should have flexibility to excuse a reasonable absense that would otherwise be unexcused, and the parents should be willing to take classwork along so that their child doesn't get behind. My sister missed a couple of good portions of her kindergarten year due to various hospitalizations, but her teacher sent home classwork and we did it with her at the hospital, so she stayed on track and moved to first grade on time. That was very reasonable, and that's how it should work. More recently, our school district changed the semester structure so summer break was a week shorter than it had been in the past, and many families who had made travel plans in advance discovered that they were coming back a week after school started. To make matters worse, our school district has a policy that if a student doesn't attend the first week, they will lose their place at that school! Everyone was panicked but thankfully the district waived that policy for anyone who got in touch with the principal ahead of time, and the absences were marked as excused. It wasn't the parents' fault that the district changed things so late.
    I do not think pressure should be put on students or parents to never miss a day due to the school loosing funding.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Why not? As a society we're spending a lot of money to set up and operate schools so that our children will be ready to take the reins when they grow up. Schools are not cheap, and students should be in them as much as possible, not only for their own good but for society's good. There are excused absences for which the school still receives funding -- illness, medical appointments, funerals, religious holidays, and for "justifiable personal reasons" which must be requested in writing and approved by the principal before the absence occurs. If you're going to take your child out of school for something that you believe is better for them than school, then you should either do it in a way that doesn't cost the school money, or you should be prepared to make up that money to the school.

    Looks like California has a similar law. I was just looking up our attendance policy and I noticed this:
    Effective January 1, 2011 Penal Code Sec. 270.1 took affect and makes it a misdemeanor [punishable by a fine not
    exceeding $2,000] for parents of students age 6 or over in kindergarten through grade 8, to not send their child to school on a regular basis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Why not? As a society we're spending a lot of money to set up and operate schools so that our children will be ready to take the reins when they grow up. Schools are not cheap, and students should be in them as much as possible, not only for their own good but for society's good. There are excused absences for which the school still receives funding -- illness, medical appointments, funerals, religious holidays, and for "justifiable personal reasons" which must be requested in writing and approved by the principal before the absence occurs. If you're going to take your child out of school for something that you believe is better for them than school, then you should either do it in a way that doesn't cost the school money, or you should be prepared to make up that money to the school.

    Looks like California has a similar law. I was just looking up our attendance policy and I noticed this:
    I just did a quick google search and it appears to me, at least in many places that it does not matter if it is an excused absence or not, the school does not receive funding if the child is absent. Either way, I do not believe a child or even the parents should be made to feel guilty for occasionally missing school. Property owners have to pay taxes whether or not their child is in school. They are ALREADY paying for the privilege of using the school and will be doing so long after their children graduate. The student and parents do not owe the school anything further.

    ~Bonita~

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    Also, this is just another way to put a divide between the poor/ well off students. Poor students would have to attend no matter what due to not being able to afford fines. The wealthy students could just pay to have special favour.

    ~Bonita~

  9. #19
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Well yes, but if you have missed school and are too far behind then something must be done. Sure its unfair that its due to illness but life is unfair sometimes.
    I addressed this in my first post. Something IS done. And those things require funding, which is why I agree with a fine, as long as it is going to the schools to pay for learning assistance, etc.
    To me this is a different debate. This is "what do you decide needs to be done after you have determined that too much school is missed" I think the cap on missed days is fine. If you miss school and are behind, it doesn't really matter if its due to illness or not, you need to catch back up! Its still common here to keep kids back a grade, if we ever switched to a different model, i would be open to that, but that doesn't really effect this idea of a "missed days cap"
    See, in our province, there is no 'what do you do' question. As a teacher, I have no choice but to pass that child on to the next grade.
    Kyla
    Mom to Arianna (5), Conner (3) and Trent (my baby)

  10. #20
    Prolific Poster ftmom's Avatar
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    Another thing I have been thinking about with this 'missed days cap' idea, is that different children can afford to miss different amounts of time from the classroom. I have known kids who suffer if they miss a few days for illness, because they are barely keeping up to begin with, and others who could easily miss a month with no noticeable detriment to their learning. I also think that it makes a difference how the days are taken. We have recently started mandatory full time kindergarten here. It is a lot for many kids and the recommendation I have heard for those kids is (if you can), give them an 'optional' day once a week. So, the child might choose to stay home and rest every Thursday instead of going to school. I know teachers who prefer parents do this instead of sending a tired, overworked kid in who wont benefit from the day anyways. This is hugely different then taking your child out of class for a month straight, but would look the same in terms of days missed.

    What I like about this system is there is some discretion for the principal, hopefully in consultation with the classroom teacher to day whether 'this' child can afford to miss these days.
    Kyla
    Mom to Arianna (5), Conner (3) and Trent (my baby)

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