Personal Debate - Preschool

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Personal Debate - Preschool

I don't think I've ever done a personal debate before. Don't worry, I plan on getting furious if you all don't agree with me (Joke!!!)

Actually, I'm not even sure if this is a real debate, particularly since I haven't made up my mind about what I am going to do. More like asking for opinions and advice from other, possibly BTDT moms.

So here's my situation.

Our son, 3 years old, has been attending the same day care since he was 12 weeks old. We like his day care lady, we have no complaints about his care or how he spends his days, and I personally like the fact that he has been with (mostly) the same small group of children his entire life - I think that provides him with a sense of stability. His day care lady is great, she feeds those kids like kings (think home made lamb stews and fresh baked goods and things like that, her house always smells AMAZING) and they do some pre-school type work like singing songs, counting, colors, crafts, things like that. So anyway, I'm very happy with her, and it hasn't been a big priority to me to move him into a formal preschool setting. I had no plans to move him until kg.

Recently, my in laws offered to enroll DS in the preschool at their synagogue (and pay for it.) Basically, he would go two days a week for part of the day, and then if he/we liked it, he could change to 3 days a week.

It would be convenient too, because the school that DH will be teaching at this year is about 5 minutes away from his parents' house. MIL said that DH could either drop T off at her house, or she could meet him at his school and take T on to her house from there. T would stay at his grandma's house until it was time for preschool to start for the day, she would take him to preschool (it is walking distance from their house) and then she would pick him up when it was over and keep him until DH got off work.

Pros:
This would likely cut our daycare costs in half. Although, I have to say that I do feel a little weird about letting DH's parents pay for stuff like this, so that's kind of a subset of thought.

I also like the idea of T spending more time with his grandma. I really like my daycare lady, but between having him be at daycare and having him spend that time with his grandma, I still think it would be great for him to have that time with his Oma. He adores her and I know that he would love being able to spend several mornings and afternoons a week with her, and I think that it would be great for him to have that time to grow his bond with her.

I also think it could be beneficial for him to have some experience with more of a "class room" type setting before starting school.

Cons: DH and I are not religious, and I don't know how I feel about sending him to a preschool in a religious institution. I'm not really violently against it per say, but it feels a little weird.

I don't know how I feel about letting DH's parents pay for preschool. They freely offered (we weren't like complaining about the costs of daycare or anything). Our relationship with them is very good and there has never been any weirdness about money or gifts so I don't think that it would change anything, but it still feels weird. I'm an adult, dangit!!! I can pay for my own childcare. Right?

So thoughts? BTDT mamas, do you think that preschool is important for getting kids ready for kg? Would you send your kid to a religious school if you yourself were not a member of that religion? Is it weird/a bad idea to let your ILs pay for your kid's tuition if you have a good relationship with them and they offer?

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One question. Are the IL's religious? Is this a ploy to use their money to get their grandchild religion? Then I can answer Smile

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Good question. Yes, but not typically pushy religious, if that makes sense.

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We were in a similar situation. DH and ILs are Jewish, I'm Methodist. DD and DS go to preschool at a Lutheran church. When DS was the age to start I decided to give it one more year. He was only 2 and I didn't think it was that pressing. Plus it would keep a few mornings a week a little more relaxed for us. MIL offered to pay for him to go, not because we couldn't or she thought he needed it. She just thought it would be nice for him to go at that age like his sister did and she likes to do for our kids. DH and I said ok and in the end we're glad we did, he had a great time this year.

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Not a BTDT, but

Is the daycare provider willing to do the part time or does she need the slot for a full-time student?

I would send my child to a good preschool that wasn't our religion (actually on a waitlist currently), would let my in-laws pay for something if there were no strings attached, and the preschool had openings. I do think it's important for children to have at least one year of classroom time before going to kindergarten.

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Lillie - Good point, I don't know about my current daycare lady and I would be sad to have to move him if she wasn't willing to go part time.

Sara - Yes, that is the same sort of thing with us - I don't think that my ILs think that we particularly *need* the help, they just like to do things for us and for T where they can. I am grateful for their generosity, especially since they do not attach strings to their gifts, but I also have a hard time accepting generous gifts. Like, much appreciated, and yes this would make our lives easier, but is it "proper" for adults to accept that much help from their parents. KWIM?

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I'll be honest and say that to me it depends on how open you are to the idea that your son might be religious, even if you aren't.

I'm very afraid of my parents introducing more religion or a different brand of religion to my children than we are open to, at the young ages that our children are at. Because we are not really religious and don't attend church, we worry that it will be confusing/send a mixed message to our children before they are really able to understand anything about it. They have never offered to pay for anything for us, but almost every gift/card/story has pretty overt religious themes. It can be very difficult. Because of my history with this, I (just me!) would worry that in accepting financial help that is geared towards religion, I was tacitly letting them be more involved in my childs religious upbringing than I am comfortable with ~ BUT, again, I admit to having a more overt issue with this and with my family than it sounds like you do with your IL's.

That said, I do think that preschool would be beneficial. If I were afraid that this was a religious/money thing with the goal of giving your child faith in their faith, I would say that you would love to accept their offer but you were actually interested in sending him to "XYZ excellent non denominational preschool" and see if the offer of financial help still stands. If you have no fear of this being a religious/money thing with faith as the end goal, or if you are totally 100% open to having a child embrace that faith, I would go for it.

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"Potter75" wrote:

That said, I do think that preschool would be beneficial. If I were afraid that this was a religious/money thing with the goal of giving your child faith in their faith, I would say that you would love to accept their offer but you were actually interested in sending him to "XYZ excellent non denominational preschool" and see if the offer of financial help still stands. If you have no fear of this being a religious/money thing with faith as the end goal, or if you are totally 100% open to having a child embrace that faith, I would go for it.

I agree. I think it depends on what you feel their motivation is. If the motivation is just to get your LO in a good place, close to them, spend more time with them well then great! Have at it!

If the goal is to try to off-handedly "force" a religious aspect into your LO's life by way of funding well then I also would politely decline.

Of course it will be up to you to talk through the religious questions that your LO is likely to have along the way and if you're ok with that and you think Oma's intentions are altruistic - then giddyup! Financial help is a great added bonus!

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Melissa - Also good points. I feel exactly the same way about my own parents, and if MY parents offered to send T to preschool at their church I wouldn't even be considering it. I am less reserved about DH's parents because they have not been nearly as overt as my parents in making their opinions known that they want T brought up within their religion. MY parents "sneak" T religious messages every chance they get which drives me bonkers. I am sure that in their heart of hearts, my ILs wish that DH would embrace his Judaism, I would convert, and that we would bring T up in the Jewish faith, but they have never been anything less than kind and accepting of me or our "lifestyle" (LOL for a lack of a better word) so I am decidedly less guarded on this subject with them than I am with my parents.

I don't really know how I feel about T embracing religion. I think it's cool for him to learn about his Jewish heritage and I'm fine with it if he wants to embrace a bit of that cultural identity as he grows up. Actually becoming religious though - eh. I think I just want to spare him from being overly influenced about that stuff until he is old enough to understand it and think through it more. Which may be the answer to my question....

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Alissa- can you talk to the teachers at the school about their daily activities? I'm not sure about everywhere else, but my daughter went to a Catholic pre-k and there really wasn't much there in the way of religion because the pre-k catered to a larger community than just the future Catholic grade school students. We don't have many pre-k's around here (especially now with public school's getting their budgets chopped), we have 2 Catholic pre-k's and one that is Lutheran (I think there's one more but can't remember for sure), so one of the pre-k's is actually advertising as non-denominational, which I know is not the same thing, but I talked to a friend that said they are just trying to pick up the extra kids and make people realize that in preschool, at least there anyway, it's not about religion, it's about filling a need the community has.

ETA: in the end, go with your gut! If it's too much for you to handle, as generous and kindly as it was offered, then politely decline. (as an aside: how do I sign up to eat lunch with T at the sitters house???)

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On the proper issue- I think if they offered it lovingly, can afford it, and are happy to do it then I would accept it.

eta-I woudln't ask the preschool about the religious issue, I would ask another parent that isn't Jewish. One of my military friends is Atheist and was devastated to have to explain to his four year old that some people believe Jesus died and some don't instead of how the Easter bunny was bringing candy. They had been told over and over (his wife is Agnostic) that there wasn't any religious teachings at all.

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BTDT mamas, do you think that preschool is important for getting kids ready for kg? Not really, as long as the daycare is doing a good job of promoting the necessary skills that an incoming K student will need. If I hadn't heard any talk yet, from the DCP or other parents, about getting ready for K, I'd ask. Here is what kids in my district are expected to be able to do the first day. Are you certain that your DCP would take a part-time child, or can you find someone to share a full-time slot with?

Would you send your kid to a religious school if you yourself were not a member of that religion? No. I've taken Tiven to a few church services, but I don't (yet) let her go alone. I don't like the idea of my child being exposed to religion without me there to interpret, kwim? Part of my job as a parent is to provide lots of opportunities for learning & growth, but another part of it is to protect her from things that I don't think she's ready to explore on her own. I'm the same way with movies; I don't let Tiven watch movies without me that I haven't seen because I want to be able to explain any scary/sexual/violent/anti-feminist things in my own way. I like Potter's suggestion about saying, "We were thinking about XYZ school instead," and see how they respond.

Is it weird/a bad idea to let your ILs pay for your kid's tuition if you have a good relationship with them and they offer? No. My dad offered to pay for Tiven's preschool and we jumped at it. DH & my dad get along OK, not great, there's some hesitation on DH's part because of my dad's history, and my dad thinks DH should get a job & support his family like a real man. But my dad loves me tons, he loves his grandkids tons, and he says he "has more money than brains," LOL, and that it's going to me anyway if he doesn't spend it on us now.

If it were my mom making the offer, I'd decline because she has a history of withholding promised money when she doesn't like the decisions we've made. If it were my MIL making the offer, I'd decline because she has a history of making commitments she can't quite afford or fulfill; I wouldn't want to be on the hook for tuition that my family couldn't otherwise afford, or be paying for preschool at a place that I really didn't want to support. If it was my FIL making the offer, I'd ask him to set it up as an automatic payment because he tends to forget non-essential non-business things. My dad gave us a lump sum at the beginning of the year & we paid the tuition monthly, but I'd have been happy if he paid it monthly.

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"momW" wrote:

one of the pre-k's is actually advertising as non-denominational, which I know is not the same thing, but I talked to a friend that said they are just trying to pick up the extra kids and make people realize that in preschool, at least there anyway, it's not about religion, it's about filling a need the community has.

That's great that they are filling a need in the community, but they might still be promoting god and religion in other ways than curriculum. They might say grace before snack or lunch, and sing "Jesus Loves Me," along with "Baa, Baa, Black Sheep," things like that that religious folks feel is innocuous but that wouldn't be allowed in a secular school.

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I would not send my child to a school that taught differently than I believed. Children are in school almost as much or more than they are at home. Who those care givers are and what they believe will come out on my children.

That said, if my parents or in-laws wanted to pay for a pre-school that I was in agreement with, I would be very happy with that.

Is pre-school absolutely necessary? That depends. What exactly is the day care providing educationally. DD1 went into kindergarten reading small books and counting to 100. Another kid in her class did not go to pre-school first and was way behind and had to spend part of the year catching up. Another kid did not go to pre-school but the mom worked very diligently at home with her and she was fine.

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In my experience, my kids went to a Catholic preschool. They did not even bring religion into the picture and don't until Kindergarten and even then many parents of different denominations sent their kids because they liked the curriculum (minus the religious ed), small class size, teachers, etc. But you should find out from the preschool what is included in the curriculum to see if this is included since this may be an issue for you.

I'm not sure I would approach the parents in asking if they paid for a different preschool instead, testing them to see if it has to do strictly with their faith and what their motives are. That just doesn't sit well with me. You mentioned the convenience of DH being so close in picking him up and staying at Oma's when not in school that day. They may have thought about that first to offer that idea. If you decline the offer, I would tell them exactly why and allow them to counteroffer if there's a different solution.

As for whether preschool is beneficial, I would be looking more at the socialization aspect of it. We chose J to start a certain preschool in the fall because she will be following with these same peers into K in the same school so she will know some of these kids and teachers when K starts, making the transition a bit smoother. Like us, maybe your inlaws were also thinking ahead in the possibility of paying for elementary (or ongoing) school tuition because of how much they like the school as well as the possibility to go to Oma's after school, too, thus continuing their bond...

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It would depend on how religious the school actually is, what do they teach the children? I was raised baptist, haven't been to Church in years. But I would be more than OK with my Daughter attending a Christian Preschool because that is our beliefs. I would not be cool with her attending a (just for example) Catholic church because that isn't 'our' religious preference.

If you are not comfortable in him being exposed so early into a religion that you do not practice, I would turn down the offer. As generous as it is, you have to be absolutely comfortable with the things that your child will be learning about!

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I wouldn't have a problem with it unless I was absolutely against the religion. If you're just on the fence with it, then I say go for it. If your MIL wants to pay, just consider it a blessing if it helps you out with the cost of childcare, which I know can be very expensive. And you said yourself, you would like him to spend more time with his grandma. My parents offered to send my son to private christian school last year (which would cost me $500 per month that I didn't have)... and of course I let them. I know how you feel, I didn't like the fact that they were paying for me, because I don't like feeling indebted to anyone... but I knew it was much better for him than the public school education was. In the end, though, you have to do what's going to make you comfortable, too.

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"momW" wrote:

Alissa- can you talk to the teachers at the school about their daily activities? I'm not sure about everywhere else, but my daughter went to a Catholic pre-k and there really wasn't much there in the way of religion because the pre-k catered to a larger community than just the future Catholic grade school students. We don't have many pre-k's around here (especially now with public school's getting their budgets chopped), we have 2 Catholic pre-k's and one that is Lutheran (I think there's one more but can't remember for sure), so one of the pre-k's is actually advertising as non-denominational, which I know is not the same thing, but I talked to a friend that said they are just trying to pick up the extra kids and make people realize that in preschool, at least there anyway, it's not about religion, it's about filling a need the community has.

ETA: in the end, go with your gut! If it's too much for you to handle, as generous and kindly as it was offered, then politely decline. (as an aside: how do I sign up to eat lunch with T at the sitters house???)

This. Most preschools with religious affiliation around here have little to no relgious curriculum tied to them. I see it as meant for parents who plan on sending their children to the school for life (if offered), or, as a service to the community, or as a fundraiser, obviously.

Ask some questions about how much relgion will be taught in the program and go from there. I think it sounds like a great opportunity for your LO. I also don't think accepting "gifts" like that from parents is odd or wrong. I know where you are coming from b/c it makes me super uncomfortable as well, but I appreciate it nonetheless. Surely they wouldn't have offered if they didn't want to do it.

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"wlillie" wrote:

On the proper issue- I think if they offered it lovingly, can afford it, and are happy to do it then I would accept it.

eta-I woudln't ask the preschool about the religious issue, I would ask another parent that isn't Jewish. One of my military friends is Atheist and was devastated to have to explain to his four year old that some people believe Jesus died and some don't instead of how the Easter bunny was bringing candy. They had been told over and over (his wife is Agnostic) that there wasn't any religious teachings at all.

I'm assuming these A/A parents sent their child to a a preschool affiliated with a religion? Why on earth, as A/A's, would they choose that??

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"daniellevmt" wrote:

I'm assuming these A/A parents sent their child to a a preschool affiliated with a religion? Why on earth, as A/A's, would they choose that??

Military communities are really limited on their childcare choices and since we move so much, it's hard to find someone you trust. They heard how good this school was and decided to send her because they were told that religion wasn't part of the curriculum. I'm trying to get Jason into an Episcopalian (sp?) pre-school because it's the best one available despite the fact that we're Baptist. His education is worth more to me than the time it will take to explain they believe something different than mommy and daddy.

It's just terrible that the first time in two years she (the friend's daughter) brought home something religious in conversation, that it was Jesus died.

eta- as an aside, this child was reading by three. She was amazingly smart and this pre-school was the best for education and socialization.

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I guess I just don't get the problem that some people have with a little exposure to other religions. I hear a lot of A/A's say they became A/A's BECAUSE they were forced to believe what their parents believed. You (general you) are doing the same exact thing if you choose to "shield" your child from any other religion or lack thereof just because you don't believe or agree, right? I get not wanting your kid to be taught hardcore "fire and brimstone" stuff at PS age, but I've yet to come across a legit relgious affiliated PS that teaches anything other than the basics of the religion.

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"daniellevmt" wrote:

I guess I just don't get the problem that some people have with a little exposure to other religions. I hear a lot of A/A's say they became A/A's BECAUSE they were forced to believe what their parents believed. You (general you) are doing the same exact thing if you choose to "shield" your child from any other religion or lack thereof just because you don't believe or agree, right? I get not wanting your kid to be taught hardcore "fire and brimstone" stuff at PS age, but I've yet to come across a legit relgious affiliated PS that teaches anything other than the basics of the religion.

You really don't get it?

I believe that one must be saved in order to go to Heaven. I wouldn't want my 4 y.o. to be taught (even if only "a little exposure") that if she does good deeds she will go to Heaven. Why? Because that's not what I believe to be true and I feel that'd she'd be getting false information from a person that she'd grown to love and trust. How confusing for her to be taught one thing at home and another thing at school. No thanks.

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Alissa, I just thought I would chime in as my children have gone to a Jewish summer camp and even though I did not send them to preschool, we have gone to congregations were they had preschools available.

Jews do not believe in prosthelytizing so they are very reserved with how much they would share or expect from a non-Jewish student. Also, most of the Jewish religious study is saved for Sunday school and for the older kids starts at around 10 for Torah study on Wednesdays usually. Anyway, most fo the learning for the younger kids is more historical study about Isreal, learning the Hebrew letters, stuff like that. And it is not usually done much in preschool. The only thing they would probably have as a rule is to keep kosher while in the building (menaing no packing ham sandwiches for lunch).

If you believe that your IL's mean this as a selfless gift and have no malintent, then I would say first find out what type of Congregation it is and then go talk to them. Judaism is based a lot on the importance of study and schooling and education (not just religious but in general)and their preschools tend to reflect that in a very positive way.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

You really don't get it?

I believe that one must be saved in order to go to Heaven. I wouldn't want my 4 y.o. to be taught (even if only "a little exposure") that if she does good deeds she will go to Heaven. Why? Because that's not what I believe to be true and I feel that'd she'd be getting false information from a person that she'd grown to love and trust. How confusing for her to be taught one thing at home and another thing at school. No thanks.

But part of going to Heaven is living a good, truthful life - so how is being taught that false? Just because you are 'saved' doesn't mean you have a spot in Heaven, you have to lead your life in a way that celebrates Christ.

Children learn plenty of conflicting information between school and home. Exposure to religion is no different. I highly doubt a preschool program will be hardcore into every religious aspect.

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Edited to remove: my bad mood post. Apologies.

Lana, thanks for the info and insight. I think I am going to ask to tour the facility (I would want to do that anyway) and ask about the curriculum. I totally agree that education and knowledge seem to be very important in the Jewish culture, and I don't doubt that is reflected in their pre-school programs. I know that they have a wonderful reputation in our area, and everyone whose children go there raves about them.

I am leaning towards sending him, but I still also need to talk to my daycare lady and see whether she would be willing to take him on part time.

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"RebeccaA'07" wrote:

Just because you are 'saved' doesn't mean you have a spot in Heaven, you have to lead your life in a way that celebrates Christ.

This is not what I believe. I would want my child to be taught something similar to what I believe.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Edited to remove: my bad mood post. Apologies.

:bigarmhug:

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

This is not what I believe. I would want my child to be taught something similar to what I believe.

Exactly. Not what we as Baptists believe either.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

Exactly. Not what we as Baptists believe either.

HeHe. I am a Baptist Smile

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

This is not what I believe. I would want my child to be taught something similar to what I believe.

What? Can you elborate?

So you believe, as soon as you are saved...that's all you have to do in order to have a spot in Heaven? I'm also baptist...it's a start in leading your life in a Godly way but that's not the only thing that you have to live for. What if a person murders someone, is that OK because they were saved back in 1990? Bs.

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"RebeccaA'07" wrote:

What? Can you elborate?

So you believe, as soon as you are saved...that's all you have to do in order to have a spot in Heaven? I'm also baptist...it's a start in leading your life in a Godly way but that's not the only thing that you have to live for. What if a person murders someone, is that OK because they were saved back in 1990? Bs.

That's something that I struggle with, but yes, that's what Baptists believe. Salvation is the way to Heaven.

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"RebeccaA'07" wrote:

What? Can you elborate?

So you believe, as soon as you are saved...that's all you have to do in order to have a spot in Heaven? I'm also baptist...it's a start in leading your life in a Godly way but that's not the only thing that you have to live for. What if a person murders someone, is that OK because they were saved back in 1990? Bs.

Yes. Salvation is a gift pure and simple. There is nothing I can either do or not do to take it away. When we are saved we become God's child and there is nothing we can do to change that. Now if you are truly saved I believe you will want to serve Him but that does not change if you are saved or not. If I were to curse my father and treat him horribly he would still be my father weather I wanted him to be or not.

John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

ETA - God has often used people that would not seem likely to us. David was a murder and a adulterous but God called him a man after his own heart. Sarah gave her husband to her handmaid.

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Can we move this discussion of salvation to the religious board please? Thank you.

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"daniellevmt" wrote:

I guess I just don't get the problem that some people have with a little exposure to other religions. I hear a lot of A/A's say they became A/A's BECAUSE they were forced to believe what their parents believed. You (general you) are doing the same exact thing if you choose to "shield" your child from any other religion or lack thereof just because you don't believe or agree, right? I get not wanting your kid to be taught hardcore "fire and brimstone" stuff at PS age, but I've yet to come across a legit relgious affiliated PS that teaches anything other than the basics of the religion.

It's these basics of religion that I am against. I don't want my kids learning at the concept of sin at this age. I don't want them learning the seemingly innocent stories of the bible that are actually savage and quite horrific. No thank you. We talk about the good stuff in certain religions but I would never send my young children to a church based school where they would be exposed to that on a daily basis without my supervision. It's one thing to talk about religion and even attend once in a while for a friend's wedding, baptism, ect.

I also would talk with the daycare lady. She might not be able to afford having a parttime child in care.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

Can we move this discussion of salvation to the religious board please? Thank you.

Why? It is an important component of this debate. Different religions hold different beliefs (salvation being just one of them) and many of us would not want our young children taught differently than we believe at home.

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"Alana*sMommy" wrote:

Why? It is an important component of this debate. Different religions hold different beliefs (salvation being just one of them) and many of us would not want our young children taught differently than we believe at home.

No, debating your beliefs on salvation have nothing to do with the op. I have no problem you thinking I and the rest of us non-Christians are going to hell or wherever, but it gets annoying reading it over and over in this thread while you hash it out. That's what the religious boards are for.

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Of course unless your belief on salvation is up for debate? Can I debate your belief that only those who repent to your Lord Jesus will be allowed in heaven? Is that up for debate? I don't think it should be out of respect to you which is why I feel it should be moved to the religious board.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

No, debating your beliefs on salvation have nothing to do with the op. I have no problem you thinking I and the rest of us non-Christians are going to hell or wherever, but it gets annoying reading it over and over in this thread while you hash it out. That's what the religious boards are for.

No one is hashing anything out. Rebecca asked for us to elaborate and we did. No one is condemning anyone to hell so stop taking things so personal. The OP is about a RELIGIOUS preschool so obviously this debate is going to deal with RELIGION. Do you want the entire debate moved to the religious board?

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I dunno, I think that the concept of requiring works for salvation is biblically supported.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

Of course unless your belief on salvation is up for debate? Can I debate your belief that only those who repent to your Lord Jesus will be allowed in heaven? Is that up for debate? I don't think it should be out of respect to you which is why I feel it should be moved to the religious board.

You can question it, sure. I have faith that I'm correct in my beliefs but admit that I could be completely wrong.

We weren't debating if Christianity is the one true religion, we were simply showing that as Baptists we may not agree with what another church (even another Christian church) teaches.

I still don't understand why you are insisting that anything be moved to the religious board. Religion and faith comes up in debates frequently.

Moving on.....

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I have no problem with my children learning about religion ~ in fact we actively embrace that. I do have a problem with them attending an institution who would tell them that they own the market on the only one "TRUE" religion/salvation, as that would not jive with what we are teaching them. I'm not an atheist, but I can imagine that many people feel like that.

Like, if you didn't want to send your child to a Muslim school it would not be fair to say that you don't want your child to learn about Islam. It would just mean that because you don't believe that Islam is the "true faith" or the way to salvation or whatever, you would not want your child to be taught that it was, as that would not jive with what you believe/worship at home.

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"Potter75" wrote:

I have no problem with my children learning about religion ~ in fact we actively embrace that. I do have a problem with them attending an institution who would tell them that they own the market on the only one "TRUE" religion/salvation, as that would not jive with what we are teaching them. I'm not an atheist, but I can imagine that many people feel like that.

Like, if you didn't want to send your child to a Muslim school it would not be fair to say that you don't want your child to learn about Islam. It would just mean that because you don't believe that Islam is the "true faith" or the way to salvation or whatever, you would not want your child to be taught that it was, as that would not jive with what you believe/worship at home.

Exactly!! This is what I mean too.

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"culturedmom" wrote:

Can we move this discussion of salvation to the religious board please? Thank you.

Serious question. Is there an active religious board?

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Serious question. Is there an active religious board?

Not sure if it is active but there sure is one. A few actually.

http://www.pregnancy.org/bulletinboards/forumdisplay.php?f=25

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1- not important for kindergarten imo
2- would never put my child in ANY school that wasn't my religion unless forced to.
3- the $ issue doesn't bother me at all, think the best of them Smile

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Baptists really believe that all you have to do to ensure eternity in heaven is ask for salvation? What about asking for forgiveness and living a life according to the Word? That's all in the Bible. Do Baptists not follow the teachings of the Bible?

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"Potter75" wrote:

I have no problem with my children learning about religion ~ in fact we actively embrace that. I do have a problem with them attending an institution who would tell them that they own the market on the only one "TRUE" religion/salvation, as that would not jive with what we are teaching them. I'm not an atheist, but I can imagine that many people feel like that.

Like, if you didn't want to send your child to a Muslim school it would not be fair to say that you don't want your child to learn about Islam. It would just mean that because you don't believe that Islam is the "true faith" or the way to salvation or whatever, you would not want your child to be taught that it was, as that would not jive with what you believe/worship at home.

I understand this completely, but like I said in the post you are referring to, most religious PS's I know of don't teach things like "we are the only true religion". They teach the most basic of the basics, they barely skim the surface of the topic.

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I guess we have a different impression of what constitutes the basics, or maybe how important the basics really are when it comes to exclusion.

Like, the basic tenet of most major religions is that their God (Whether it is Jesus or Allah or Jehovah or whatev) is the one "real" or right God. Isn't it? I doubt many "christian" preschools are singing songs or teaching any religious concepts other than that which relate to Jesus/salvation etc......so if one does not teach their children that only Jesus/salvation is correct, I can see how they might be uncomfortable sending their child to a place that embraces that or tells stories related to that concept.

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"daniellevmt" wrote:

Baptists really believe that all you have to do to ensure eternity in heaven is ask for salvation? What about asking for forgiveness and living a life according to the Word? That's all in the Bible. Do Baptists not follow the teachings of the Bible?

Yep.
Asking for salvation is also asking for forgiveness. Living a life according to the word is impossible; people are human and are going to make mistakes. Some people think that speeding is fine, others view it as a sin because they aren't following the laws of the land. A sin is a sin though the punishment according to the world is going to be vastly different.

We don't consider sinning a reason to go to hell if you have asked Jesus into your heart.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Yes. Salvation is a gift pure and simple. There is nothing I can either do or not do to take it away. When we are saved we become God's child and there is nothing we can do to change that. Now if you are truly saved I believe you will want to serve Him but that does not change if you are saved or not. If I were to curse my father and treat him horribly he would still be my father weather I wanted him to be or not.

John 10:28 "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

ETA - God has often used people that would not seem likely to us. David was a murder and a adulterous but God called him a man after his own heart. Sarah gave her husband to her handmaid.

Just curious.... how do you explain Ananias and Sapphira? Were they not saved? Somehow I don't think they went to heaven.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5&version=NIV

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"daniellevmt" wrote:

Baptists really believe that all you have to do to ensure eternity in heaven is ask for salvation? What about asking for forgiveness and living a life according to the Word? That's all in the Bible. Do Baptists not follow the teachings of the Bible?

Yes.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If we were depending on how good we are to get into heaven, then no one would be there. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;".

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Just curious.... how do you explain Ananias and Sapphira? Were they not saved? Somehow I don't think they went to heaven.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+5&version=NIV

This shows how God looks at sin. How sin is not acceptable to God. The people who say that say that they good enough to get into heaven without Christ.

I give the example of Prince William's wedding. (which is in no way heaven) There is nothing in it of myself that I could have done to get an invitation. But if the Groom (William) knew me and gave me an invitation, then I would be invited to go.

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