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  1. #31
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    Default Reference to 9/11

    In my mind every time I think of this, 9/11 is the first thing that pops into my head. I know it is not rational and really I don't know that a pilot would make a huge difference, but I still keep thinking about it. In a flight now, if someone gets out of hand the pilot makes an emergency landing. Without a pilot on hand, how much easier would it be for someone to break in and take charge of the plane? If there is a real person in charge of the plane on the ground, then just as much training would be required. If there is not a real person on the ground, how are they going to deal with problems that would require an emergency landing - Medical emergency such as someone dying or giving birth, someone trying to hijack the plane, bad weather or storm?

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    In my mind every time I think of this, 9/11 is the first thing that pops into my head. I know it is not rational and really I don't know that a pilot would make a huge difference, but I still keep thinking about it. In a flight now, if someone gets out of hand the pilot makes an emergency landing. Without a pilot on hand, how much easier would it be for someone to break in and take charge of the plane? If there is a real person in charge of the plane on the ground, then just as much training would be required. If there is not a real person on the ground, how are they going to deal with problems that would require an emergency landing - Medical emergency such as someone dying or giving birth, someone trying to hijack the plane, bad weather or storm?
    You could heighten security without having trained pilots.

    Plus, lets not forget, there were pilots on those 9/11 flights.

    I'd kind of like to think if itw ere possible to control the plane from somehwere else other than the plane itself, that actually might have helped 9/11, not hurt it.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Yeah i write software for a living, so i kind of have an idea of how it works. Saying thats like "training a computer" is more of a symbolic comparison as it works nothing like training. You had said "The FAA requires all this training, why would they all of a sudden just let a computer do it".... I'm just trying to say thats two totally different things. Instead of the FAA requiring training, which is a human way of cutting down on errors and mistakes, you instead require a lot of QA, a lot of testing, a lot of research, refactoring etc. etc. And I'm pretty sure that the FAA would require that this stuff seem pretty safe before ever allowing it to be used.
    I write software too, and that is why I don't think its possible. Even with the best software things go wrong, and I don't think it would ever be that good that it wouldn't require a human backup. It's not like they could just reboot the system while they are in the air. Like I said even as automated as the train system is they still require an engineer to be at the controls.
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  4. #34
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    The 9/11 scenario is a case FOR computers, not against them. No one can even get into my PHONE because of my password. Putting a gun to my phones head would have no result. Not so with a pilot.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    The 9/11 scenario is a case FOR computers, not against them. No one can even get into my PHONE because of my password. Putting a gun to my phones head would have no result. Not so with a pilot.
    Not exactly. All it takes is a good hacker. There are plenty of those out there.
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    You mean storm the cockpit and sit there and hack it? Or hack it from the ground? If thats the case planes are already 90% automated, they would be doing it already.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    You mean storm the cockpit and sit there and hack it? Or hack it from the ground? If thats the case planes are already 90% automated, they would be doing it already.
    Hack the connection between the ground and the cockpit. Even if they are 90% automated they are now self contained not controlled by a source on the ground, and there is always a pilot at the controls even when it is on autopilot. A remote system would open up window for someone else to take over control, and it could never be completely self contained because it would have to be open for route changes or delays on the ground. It would be kind of like controlling a plane over the internet.
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    Yeah-I just don't worry about it. Our military controls missiles and drones and all sorts of crazy stuff- my dh is in that industry and the stuff he can tell me about is mind boggling fr a security perspective. It just doesn't scare me, personally.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I write software too, and that is why I don't think its possible.
    I am really surprised that as a programmer that you do not think this is possible. Obviously 100% safety is not possible. I think as a programmer, you are in the minority in thinking that its not possible for this to be safer.

    Even with the best software things go wrong, and I don't think it would ever be that good that it wouldn't require a human backup. It's not like they could just reboot the system while they are in the air. Like I said even as automated as the train system is they still require an engineer to be at the controls.
    I think requiring human back up is different than saying its not as safe as a human flying it.

    ETA: and no one is suggesting that things don't go wrong with great software. The suggestion is that human error causes problems more often.

  10. #40
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    I read this article today and it reminded me of this debate. I guess it is possible to hijack planes remotely after all.

    EXCLUSIVE: GPS flaw could let terrorists hijack ships, planes | Fox News
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