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  1. #21
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Maybe the word "redeemed" is what I am not getting.. is he saying they can.. and may be redeemed and Jesus came to redeem everyone? Or is the Pope saying that we are already redeemed, regardless of beliefs..?
    That is what he said:
    "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!"

    To me that means that we have all already been redeemed regardless of what we believe, not that everyone can be redeemed, which I would agree with.
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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    And i find that it takes a lot more courage to question and sometimes change than simply believing what yer ma and pa and everyone around you in your little bubble and your little demographic and your little town and your little church that you were raised in believes. To me, that's super easy. It isn't just me who thinks that you dismissing other religions than your perfect little one as rude. Trust me.
    So are you not making a LOT of assumptions with the statement you just made? You just proved my point.
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  3. #23
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    Well, as someone who identifies as an atheist, I don't find it upsetting. I find it hilarious. As do the great majority of my atheist friends.

    To me, it's like saying the the Polar Express is going to come get me this Christmas and take me to the North Pole whether I believe it or not.

    I also agree that he didn't say it TO atheists or any other group of people, aside from those who actively listen to him, his Catholic church members.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    So are you not making a LOT of assumptions with the statement you just made? You just proved my point.
    It's just a general statement Gloria. Just like yours was, remember? you can't okay general statements if you don't want to hear them back. I figured you gave overt permission for them when you made them then three times defended it in the face of appeals. So I guess they are okay so I will make my own. Surely that doesn't bother you or you would look like a huge hypocrite.

  5. #25
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    It's just a general statement Gloria. Just like yours was, remember? you can't okay general statements if you don't want to hear them back. I figured you gave overt permission for them when you made them then three times defended it in the face of appeals. So I guess they are okay so I will make my own. Surely that doesn't bother you or you would look like a huge hypocrite.
    It doesn't bother me at all I already knew how you felt from past statements calling people bigots and such. I wasn't the one pointing it out as rude and insulting, it just seemed a little odd for you to call me out and then turn right around and say worse things.
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    Melis & Gloria, please remember to debate the issue, not one another.
    David Letterman is retiring. Such great memories of watching him over the past thirty-two years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    It doesn't bother me at all I already knew how you felt from past statements calling people bigots and such. I wasn't the one pointing it out as rude and insulting, it just seemed a little odd for you to call me out and then turn right around and say worse things.
    Worse? Same. Your opinion of easy vs. mine. Stop lying. This has nothing to do with bigots. Why are you making things up? It's weird. Your obsession with me is flattering but sometimes it leads you to abandon logic, and it's a shame because when you aren't blinded with vendetta you can be a good debater. This personal stuff is super yawney. I'm done going back and forth with you as you have no coherent point.

  8. #28
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Worse? Same. Your opinion of easy vs. mine. Stop lying. This has nothing to do with bigots. Why are you making things up? It's weird. Your obsession with me is flattering but sometimes it leads you to abandon logic, and it's a shame because when you aren't blinded with vendetta you can be a good debater. This personal stuff is super yawney. I'm done going back and forth with you as you have no coherent point.
    I'm not the one who started down this road. I was just debating the topic.
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  9. #29
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    I spent some time thinking about this and I too do not think this was a message to atheists. I really believe it was a message to Catholics. And I think it was a good message.
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  10. #30
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    Well i think its great. And it really is not anything new. The Catholic Church does not actually teach that you must be Catholic in order ot be saved. Look up Baptism by Desire. I think its great for him to re-inforce it. And to the Athiests who are mocking it...well thats just silly, its not for you, the teaching is meant for Catholics and I would think you would be happy that the church is teaching its followers that we are all included, and all loved...and hopefully that would mean we catholic believers should act the same.

    It doesn't matter that you don't believe in 'being saved'...within the context of someones faith, its basically a teaching, to those people, of being all inclusive. You can't complain on one hand that people are so harsh towards your beliefs and then in another breath make fun of faiths that are actually trying to say "hey...you know good people are good people regardless of their faith"

    I find the Pope's message to be a far more respectable one than mocking people and making fun of them for being believers in a faith to begin with.

    This seems like a you can't win situation. Maybe people just want to be mad at religious people and insist on them being divisive....you try to change the attitude of your followers and then all of a sudden people think you are joke instead.

    Whatever. I think this pope is very refreshing. I like where he focuses his energy.

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