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  1. #41
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Gloria - et.al. - If the Pope is saying that we are all saved.. going to heaven if we do "good" it is a not Biblical. He is leaving out a huge chunk of the Bible to appease people. I am not convinced he is actually saying that.. but if he is, it is NOT a new stance for the Catholic Church, and is a large part as to why there was a Reformation. The idea of Christianity.. is that "no one comes to the father but through me". There is no other way... In fact the LORD sees "good deeds" as equal to menstrual rags if that person is not a believer.

    In the days of Martin Luther, the Catholic Church taught you must do good to be saved. Then they went on with this idea and you had to pay penance for sins. You had to pay money for a piece of paper that declared you forgiven. The Pope on down were corrupting the WORD of God and getting rich. The people didn't even know it was against the BIBLE because it was in Latin and Luther, in his 95 Theses that he nailed to the door of the Catholic Church in Germany, wanted it written in German for the people to be able to access it. The majority did not know or understand Latin, and went simply on what their church leaders wanted.

    Luther's thoughts were so egregious that he was excommunicated and cut off entirely. He also fled for his life.

    The Catholic Church... if taking this stance is separating themselves once again from the Protestants, whose views are obviously changing also.

    I am not sure the purpose if it, if he views this way why not become Bahai? Now there is an all inclusive religion.

    I do think he will get away with it.. and that people will applaud him and follow his teaching. But it will be because they are then not following the Bible. Either because they do not know or understand the Bible, and the Pope sounds "good", or because they do not believe the Bible at all.
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  2. #42
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    I do think he will get away with it.. and that people will applaud him and follow his teaching. But it will be because they are then not following the Bible. Either because they do not know or understand the Bible, and the Pope sounds "good", or because they do not believe the Bible at all.
    Catholics in general do not follow the bible in the same sense you do though RG. its a very different religion in that way.
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    Posting Addict fuchsiasky's Avatar
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    Honestly this is the first thing that has come out of Rome that I am happy with since I left the Church because of the things that come out of Rome.

    I feel that the works and actions of the people on earth are far more important than the faiths we follow. There are many people whose actions would count them as "redeemed" in the eyes of a church who are not Church followers. When I left the Catholic Church it was because I could not in good conscience follow the dictates of Rome. But the words of Christ are good words and to follow them and their sentiments leads to a life of light and love (hopefully). But I don't feel that you have to be a part of a Church to follow the light. And as long as it is the light (aka God) that you are following, why does it matter which path (faith/church/etc) you take to get there?

    I think the pope was reminding people that there is goodness outside of the realm of the Church and that the Church should not look at non-Catholics as second class. Because maybe their actions are in line with the teachings even if they are not part of the Church.
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    Vatican corrects Pope: Atheists are still going to hell - National Humanist | Examiner.com


    this makes sense. What the pope said simply did not make sense from a catholic perspective. It didn't. As a Unitarian I was yay! But knowing the bible (and Catholics) I was huh????

    it didn't make sense at all. Sorry atheists. You still have to burn in the place you don't believe in
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  5. #45
    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    I think it really depends on what one uses to determine if someone "knows" the Catholic Church. IMO that could be open to a lot of interpretation. Especially because I think a lot of people who even claim to be catholic don't know the faith very well. Alternatively, if you think of catholicism as finding truth (as catholics do) I think that concept of truth can be sabotaged from within... Preventing those supposedly exposed, to not be properly exposed. Anyway.. I still agree with the popes statements and i don't believe them to truly be in conflict. I guarantee you that there are other authorities within the faith that would agree as well. In reality, catholicism is very much like any large governing body. There isn't as much unity in thought and belief as they need to portray outwardly. Religious organization or not, they still have human obstacles to overcome.
    Last edited by KimPossible; 05-25-2013 at 05:32 PM.
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    I guess i mean I use my knowledge of the bible coupled with the studies I've done of Catholicism (which led us to baptize our children catholic then leave the church) ...... And the fact they the Vatican agrees?

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    Posting Addict KimPossible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I guess i mean I use my knowledge of the bible coupled with the studies I've done of Catholicism (which led us to baptize our children catholic then leave the church) ...... And the fact they the Vatican agrees?
    But that's what I'm saying... It's what the Vatican Says outwardly, i don't believe there is universal agreement among the authorities in the Catholic Church. It's the human element of the church that keeps me from leaving completely. The human element of the church is flawed. Anyway, i respect the popes outspoken opinion, and I don't think it is owned solely by him
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    So you think the Vatican is frontin? I admit I'm reading your words and I honestly don't get what you mean. At the end of the day Catholicism is based on the resurrection of Christ. That story omis told in the bible. Christ (Jesus) is clear on the subject of salvation.

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    I think the Vatican correcting the pope is just politics. The Vatican is a bunch of old men who have positions of great power and luxury. Then along comes a Jesuit pope who sits on a nice chair rather than a gold-encrusted giant throne. He washes the feet of Muslim women rather than theirs. He believes in humility and scholarship, and is setting a different tone in Rome than has ever been seen before. I think the men in the Vatican are running scared, honestly.

    Do I really care that the pope thinks I can get to heaven? No. There is no heaven or hell for me to go to. I do like that he is following the tenets of his faith, continuing in Jesuit traditions despite ascending to the throne of Rome. I think this is a huge but very good first step for Rome - people in South America who can barely feed their children give money to the church and it goes to finance Rolls Royces for cardinals. That can't be very popular. I think that the emphasis on good works is a good thing, hopefully it will get more Catholics to volunteer instead of spending time blocking same-sex marriage rules.

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    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimPossible View Post
    Catholics in general do not follow the bible in the same sense you do though RG. its a very different religion in that way.
    Agreed and that is the point I was trying to make.. By trying to include Athiests they are putting a division between themselves and conservative Protestant churches.. where in the last few decades that division had been closing.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

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