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Thread: Praise for pregnant 11 year old (rape and abort mentioned)

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    I just wanted to point out that this is also a personal attack. If you have to experience rape to qualify to debate this topic why did you start it?
    This is NOT A personal attack and don't twist my words. Of COURSE one does not have to experience rape to qualify to debate the topic. However, the two people in the debate who have not uttered ONE word of compassion or concern for this CHild (Literally, I checked) are you two. You blindly use words like "wonderful!" and "Praiseworthy!" and "Mature!!!!" and even have the audacity to draw parallels between you (who grew up in the USA, presumably un-raped by your stepfather or told that it was okay by your mother) and this pregnant, totally alone child, because you BABYSAT. Babysitting for a few hours is NOTHING like being a mother 24/7 at 11 years old, and you know it. So yes, I was pointing out that I find it strange that having nothing in common with this child, and having shown little to no empathy for her plight (as like it or not being repeatedly raped as a child IS a plight)....well, its hard for you to then say what she should do because of what YOU did, if that makes any sense.

    In other words, you have no more problem using her as a moral or religious pawn than the president did, and I find that terribly sad, especially from mothers of children, who one would generally expect to have more compassion.

  2. #112
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Complications of teenage pregnancy:

    Adolescent pregnancy is associated with higher rates of illness and death for both the mother and infant. Death from violence is the second leading cause of death during pregnancy for teens, and is higher in teens than in any other group.
    Pregnant teens are at much higher risk of having serious medical complications such as:
    Infants born to teens are 2 - 6 times more likely to have low birth weight than those born to mothers age 20 or older. Prematurity plays the greatest role in low birth weight, but intrauterine growth retardation (inadequate growth of the fetus during pregnancy) is also a factor.
    Teen mothers are more likely to have unhealthy habits that place the infant at greater risk for inadequate growth, infection, or chemical dependence. The younger a mother is below age 20, the greater the risk of her infant dying during the first year of life.
    It is very important for pregnant teens to have early and adequate prenatal care.
    Adolescent pregnancy: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

    Premature Labor

    Teenage mothers face the possibility of premature labor, or labor that starts before 37 weeks gestation. Physically, teenage mothers have immature reproductive organs that may not be prepared to carry an infant to term. The Journal of Perinatology noted in a 2002 study that an immature cervix and metabolic system play a role in causing preterm birth in teen moms. Sexually transmitted diseases and smoking also increase the risk of preterm labor and birth.
    High Blood Pressure

    The increased demand for blood flow during pregnancy can place strain on a teenage mother's undeveloped cardiovascular system, which can be unprepared to handle the extra circulatory load. High blood pressure, also called pregnancy induced hypertension (PIH), can develop as a result. Even with treatment, PIH can develop into a more serious condition called preeclampsia, which is a combination of high blood pressure, swelling of the hands, face and feet and protein in the urine. Preeclampsia and PIH can both result in reduced fetal birth weight and growth and place the mother at risk of cardiac complications during pregnancy.
    Anemia

    Iron is an important nutrient for healthy red blood cells. Blood that is low in iron is not as effective at circulating oxygen-rich blood to body tissues and organs. Pregnancy places an extra demand on the body to circulate blood to the developing placenta and baby and can rob the cells of iron. Combined with a diet poor in iron-rich foods, which is common among teens, anemia (low iron) can result. Anemia can be treated during pregnancy by consuming iron-rich foods or iron supplements as needed.


    Read more: Complications With Teenage Pregnancy | LIVESTRONG.COM
    Risks for medical complications are greater for girls 14 years of age and younger, as an underdeveloped pelvis can lead to difficulties in childbirth. Obstructed labour is normally dealt with by Caesarean section in industrialized nations; however, in developing regions where medical services might be unavailable, it can lead to eclampsia, obstetric fistula, infant mortality, or maternal death.[4] For mothers in their late teens, age in itself is not a risk factor, and poor outcomes are associated more with socioeconomic factors rather than with biology.[5]
    Teenage pregnancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    All the prenatal care in the world doesn't change the fact that this 11-YEAR-OLD faces potentially serious medical complications due to her age and physical immaturity alone.

  3. #113
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    This is NOT A personal attack and don't twist my words. Of COURSE one does not have to experience rape to qualify to debate the topic. However, the two people in the debate who have not uttered ONE word of compassion or concern for this CHild (Literally, I checked) are you two. You blindly use words like "wonderful!" and "Praiseworthy!" and "Mature!!!!" and even have the audacity to draw parallels between you (who grew up in the USA, presumably un-raped by your stepfather or told that it was okay by your mother) and this pregnant, totally alone child, because you BABYSAT. Babysitting for a few hours is NOTHING like being a mother 24/7 at 11 years old, and you know it. So yes, I was pointing out that I find it strange that having nothing in common with this child, and having shown little to no empathy for her plight (as like it or not being repeatedly raped as a child IS a plight)....well, its hard for you to then say what she should do because of what YOU did, if that makes any sense.

    In other words, you have no more problem using her as a moral or religious pawn than the president did, and I find that terribly sad, especially from mothers of children, who one would generally expect to have more compassion.
    Maybe you need to read...

    Quote Originally Posted by MissyJ View Post
    Melissa - while I get that you were / are upset over the post, you cannot swarm in with personal attacks of this manner. Fine to say that you disagree, find the post distasteful or whatever. It is also NEVER ok to post someone's personal name and information online without their permission. I am editing those posts. Debate the topic. NOT the person. If you can't do that take a break.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
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    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  4. #114
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    I did read that, thanks. I'm debating your tactic of saying you know how this 11 year old feels. You don't. You can't. It's a bad debate point on your part and I'm replying to it. Maybe you need to step away if you can't see that.
    Spacers likes this.

  5. #115
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    I did read that, thanks. I'm debating your tactic of saying you know how this 11 year old feels. You don't. You can't. It's a bad debate point on your part and I'm replying to it. Maybe you need to step away if you can't see that.
    Neither do you.
    Quote Originally Posted by MissyJ View Post
    It is also not a requirement that all participants of a debate must have personal experience with every aspect of the topic in order to weigh in.
    Rivergallery likes this.
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
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  6. #116
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spacers View Post
    Shame on you. Don't make judgments when you haven't lived through someone else's circumstances. Isn't something like that found in that bible you like to spout about?

    Perhaps you've forgotten that my husband has a mental illness that prevents him from working; if I don't work, we don't eat, we lose our apartment, we lose our health insurance. And yes, I was pretty sure to lose my job. I didn't want more money. I just didn't want to have a BABY when there was no way to provide for it. Kind of like if I were, oh let's say, eleven? No job, no stability, no health care, that's what this girl is facing, too.
    Ok let's address the poor that get pregnant... Even if raped. (which is a very low %age of abortions). Should what many believe is murder be allowed if you are poor? Why not just put it up for adoption?
    Since we believe fundamentally taking that fetus and destorying it is wrong.. the circumstances behind it do not change. The only time I would be "OK" with someone choosing to destroy a fetus would be if they would die instead.. however I never would.. but I would consider it more of a self-defense than murder.

    You are the one that brought your personal story into it. YOU said you were married.. I do not as Potter so lovingly likes to point out keep track of peoples names.. or personal circumstances to bring into other debates.. I vaguely remember basic positions people take on subjects.. like Gloria is usually right wing, and I remember AlyssaElmers is right but a little more center, and homeschool.. And I remember blather is in an asian country I think.. that is about it.. so NO I didn't remember your husband was disabled. However it doesn't change my position.

    If an abortion is done for the reason that the mother might loose her job, it is based on money. It isn't meant to judge or sound crass. It is what was said.. that the person MIGHT loose their job if they couldn't work during their pregnancy.. YES.. that MIGHT mean that they become homeless... does becoming homeless for a time mean you should have elective surgery... OK.. IF you do not fundamentally believe that that piece of tissue is a person.. However a large group of people do believe that piece of tissue is already a person..

    What makes it a Person?
    Is it not a person because it is smaller?--- are you more human the larger you get?
    Is it not a person because it is 4-6in from coming out? --- Do you become inhuman if you roll over in bed? Does location matter?
    Is it not a person because it is dependent on something else to live? Are those on life support not human?

    Let's say those don't get to you.... Why does the EPA protect Bald Eagle Eggs? They are not Bald Eagles under this definition. Why if a pregnant woman is killed it is a double homicide?

    Let's go one more.. since we are getting into my train wreck of thought....
    If women have a choice to separate themselves from a responsibility of being a parent... up to 9 months.. as we all know there are places that will do partial birth abortion. Why not afford the father the same right? Within 9 months of knowing he is the father he can legally separate himself from those responsibilities. Seems fair is fair right?...

    The father who granted doesn't have the responsibility to carry the child within his body.. still has to pay for the child whether they want to or not... it is all up to the woman.... the WOMEN in this country are deciding what happens to our society... which children are born, which are not... You do understand that is a heck of a lot of power.. Not just over your own body.

    The majority of abortions are done by 20-30yo's in relationships.. they are usually not rape victims/incest victims. They are usually not poor. They are creating our society.. They choose to have sex and then choose to not own up to the resposibility of bearing the child.. we are not even talking about raising it.

    REGARDING the topic of FOSTERING-

    The straw man argument about fostering is mute... The parents haven't given up their children.. the majority of these are drug addicts, abusive parents etc.. They are not releasing their children so the children can have a wonderful life.. they are holding their children hostage. Many many people I know are foster parents, many many I know adopt.. and lots have adopted special needs children, and want to adopt family groups.. It is up to the bio-parents if their children have a good life.. Often they wait to release their child till it is too late.. and the child is a teen..
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  7. #117
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    Well thats not entirely true. Having been raped I can imagine that she is scared. I can imagine she is confused, and probably feels guilty. I can imagine that she is terribly conflicted as perhaps she wants her mom around- even a bad mom is often longed for - especially by an abused child who probably worries that this is somehow all HER fault- that her pregnancy put her mom and dad behind bars and brought all of this scary international attention to her.

    But if you read the debate you will notice that I never claimed to know how the girl feels because I was once 11 and mature. I don't know how she feels. You've claimed that you do. That's WIDE OPEN for debate.

    Anyway- do you have anything to add to the topic, Gloria, or are you just trying to nitpick me?

  8. #118
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Reminder: Please debate the topic, and not each other. You do not need personal experience to comment on a topic, but I also don't feel like saying that someone's position is "disturbing" is a personal attack. So you're both right. But now please get back on topic.
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  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Well thats not entirely true. Having been raped I can imagine that she is scared. I can imagine she is confused, and probably feels guilty. I can imagine that she is terribly conflicted as perhaps she wants her mom around- even a bad mom is often longed for - especially by an abused child who probably worries that this is somehow all HER fault- that her pregnancy put her mom and dad behind bars and brought all of this scary international attention to her.

    But if you read the debate you will notice that I never claimed to know how the girl feels because I was once 11 and mature. I don't know how she feels. You've claimed that you do. That's WIDE OPEN for debate.

    Anyway- do you have anything to add to the topic, Gloria, or are you just trying to nitpick me?
    Weird... I am only responding to your posts to me or about me. I guess I am just supposed to let you say whatever you want about me unchallenged is that it?
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
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    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  10. #120
    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Do I have your attention?

    Please drop the back and forth or I will leave it locked.

    In other words, don't make me turn this car around.
    Spacers likes this.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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