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  1. #51
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    Melissa - I think I poorly expressed what I was trying to say. It does not matter the amount of money you are paying for that care you receive in the hospital, you are still paying for it. If you went to a department store and were looking to buy something and you were unhappy with your sales associate, would you find it odd to request a different associate? It would not matter the reason you wanted someone different, if the boss/owner wanted your business they would do their best to accommodate you. I used the figure of a half million dollars because I know that is how much a few weeks in the NICU costs. There are so many people that think "well I am a lowly person and my doctor is SO smart, how dare I question anything they say", when in reality you know your own body and your children more than any doctor. You also care more about you and your children more than the doctor does. It is your job to speak up for youself to make sure your rights are being heard. It is not for the hospital to say "Well this is the nurse you are getting, if you do not like it go somewhere else", if that is the case for requesting a black nurse, it is also the case for requesting one that speaks clear English, one that is a woman/man, one that does not have an abrasive personality, one that does not wear deodorant, or any other number of reasons. You either are in charge of your own care or you are not.

    Again, just to re-iterate, I think racism is horrible and my heart breaks for anyone on the receiving end of that situation. I do not however, think it serves anyone to have a nurse keep serving a patient that does not want him or her there.

    ~Bonita~

  2. #52
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    Agreed. Either you can request a different practitioner for any reason or you can't. Just because we really dislike and hate his reason doesn't mean that someone couldn't find my reasons just as awful.

    Asking to be accommodated to a preferred physician or nurse is not going against medical guidelines. If it couldn't be done then his option is to stay with what they are providing him or at that point go AMA and transfer to another hospital. I don't believe it is entitlement to ask for someone I'm comfortable with to be my caretaker. I've never even had to ask any physician or nurse to change but I still feel as I should have the option to.
    AlyssaEimers likes this.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    A baby that is relatively stable is different than an emergency situation. I do not agree that it is different than someone being obnoxious. No I do not consider being black as being obnoxious. However, either you have the right to request a different nurse or doctor or you do not. In an emergency situation you are going to have to deal with whatever medical personal is available to you. In a non-emergency situation I believe it is common place to request a different nurse or doctor for all sorts of reasons. As I said, the hospital has every right to say no, we can not accommodate your request at this time, but you can still ask. That is not the same as denying care.

    I'm not saying people can't ask. I never said they can't ask. I'm saying that for people to believe that its okay for the hospital to participate in discrimination because someone asked is wrong. And I'm saying that the idea that a nurse who has done nothing wrong but be black can be refused the ability to do her job is dead wrong. And you can try to distinguish between an emergency and non emergency situation and whatnot, but at the end of the day we live in community. And part of living in community, or being in a hospitals care, as this debate may have it, is that the whole world does not and should not cater to you. A bad or rude or dangerous nurse has nothing to do with a nurses skin color or the color of their scrubs, and to believe that we should all have the power not just to ask but to GET whatever we want simply because we are "paying for it" is selfish thinking, IMO.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Melissa - I think I poorly expressed what I was trying to say. It does not matter the amount of money you are paying for that care you receive in the hospital, you are still paying for it. If you went to a department store and were looking to buy something and you were unhappy with your sales associate, would you find it odd to request a different associate? It would not matter the reason you wanted someone different, if the boss/owner wanted your business they would do their best to accommodate you. I used the figure of a half million dollars because I know that is how much a few weeks in the NICU costs. There are so many people that think "well I am a lowly person and my doctor is SO smart, how dare I question anything they say", when in reality you know your own body and your children more than any doctor.

    Believe me, I'm the first to demand correct care. However, truthfully I DON'T know more about lots of medical things than doctors. For instance, when my son was bleeding to death I didn't have any idea how to stop it. While I knew my hip was broken, I surely didn't know how to reset it and insert multiple screws and pins. So I guess that is where we differ. I don't think that I know the inside of my children's bodies, or my own, better than a Dr or nurse, because they have years of schooling and experience that I don't have. Therefore I am not willing to think that I am the most important person in a hospital, even though I'm "paying them", nor do I think that I have the right to choose my caregivers based on my own personal pet peeves (or outright bigotry, in this case).

  5. #55
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    I'm not saying being black is being equivalent to having poor care. But, I throw it in the boat of me having a preference of a female physician (although I don't think it's as ugly to say that.) They could have easily said...sorry that's all we have that is available to tend to your child and they probably should have. But either we let that reason be a reason to ask or else all our reasons are out the window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica80 View Post
    I'm not saying being black is being equivalent to having poor care. But, I throw it in the boat of me having a preference of a female physician (although I don't think it's as ugly to say that.) They could have easily said...sorry that's all we have that is available to tend to your child and they probably should have. But either we let that reason be a reason to ask or else all our reasons are out the window.

    That is where we disagree. When a Dr came into my sons room and said he wasn't on Morphine (and laughed at me when I said that he not only was but had been for three days), I demanded that he leave the room, and not entirely politely, either. A doctor who wants to discharge my child but can't be bothered to read my child's chart is not going to treat my child again. Ever. And since I had a nurse witness the encounter, I got exactly what I wanted, which was a new DR. Saying that giving into discrimination protects us to be able to make requests when we get bad care just isn't logical. There is no maybe about it to me, the hospital should never, ever have allowed this man to determine that that nurse not treat her son any more than a Dr should be allowed to decide that they don't want to treat a patient due to their skin color.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Believe me, I'm the first to demand correct care. However, truthfully I DON'T know more about lots of medical things than doctors. For instance, when my son was bleeding to death I didn't have any idea how to stop it. While I knew my hip was broken, I surely didn't know how to reset it and insert multiple screws and pins. So I guess that is where we differ. I don't think that I know the inside of my children's bodies, or my own, better than a Dr or nurse, because they have years of schooling and experience that I don't have. Therefore I am not willing to think that I am the most important person in a hospital, even though I'm "paying them", nor do I think that I have the right to choose my caregivers based on my own personal pet peeves (or outright bigotry, in this case).
    Yes, doctor's have more medical training than I do, that does not mean they are always right. I have so many examples just in my own life. Caitlyn was born with a tethered cord. The paediatric neurosurgeon that we first took her to told us to ignore it and that he believed she was fine. If I had listened to that doctor, and not taken her to a different neurosurgeon in a larger city she would be paralysed from the waist down by now. My uncle was told by a doctor that he had terminal cancer. A second opinion revealed there was food in his lungs and that he was cancer free. Doctors are not perfect. Sticking up for yourself has nothing at all to do with thinking you are the most important person in a hospital. Just that you are important. Every patient there is important. When DH was recently in the hospital for his transplant, it was a constant battle to get the nurse to come. If he was due for medicine at 3:30 and the nurse had not come by 3:45 or 4:00 I went to get her. Turning the light on for a nurse would take a least a half an hour for someone to come unless you went and personally asked them to come. I do not think it is being self centered to make yourself heard or to ask for a different nurse. On both parties. I do not think it would serve a nurse well to have a patient that had hatred for her.

    ~Bonita~

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Yes, doctor's have more medical training than I do, that does not mean they are always right. I have so many examples just in my own life. Caitlyn was born with a tethered cord. The paediatric neurosurgeon that we first took her to told us to ignore it and that he believed she was fine. If I had listened to that doctor, and not taken her to a different neurosurgeon in a larger city she would be paralysed from the waist down by now. My uncle was told by a doctor that he had terminal cancer. A second opinion revealed there was food in his lungs and that he was cancer free. Doctors are not perfect. Sticking up for yourself has nothing at all to do with thinking you are the most important person in a hospital. Just that you are important. Every patient there is important. When DH was recently in the hospital for his transplant, it was a constant battle to get the nurse to come. If he was due for medicine at 3:30 and the nurse had not come by 3:45 or 4:00 I went to get her. Turning the light on for a nurse would take a least a half an hour for someone to come unless you went and personally asked them to come. I do not think it is being self centered to make yourself heard or to ask for a different nurse. On both parties. I do not think it would serve a nurse well to have a patient that had hatred for her.
    I've not said that they are always right. I just can't understand how you continue to compare your situations to race based hatred. So, I give up, can't continue!

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    You should be left untreated and then be charged with criminal neglect should anything happen to your child because of your refusal of treatment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    When a Dr came into my sons room and said he wasn't on Morphine (and laughed at me when I said that he not only was but had been for three days), I demanded that he leave the room, and not entirely politely, either. A doctor who wants to discharge my child but can't be bothered to read my child's chart is not going to treat my child again. Ever. And since I had a nurse witness the encounter, I got exactly what I wanted, which was a new DR.
    What makes your reason to deny care any more noble than someone else's reason? Should you have been charged with criminal neglect because you requested a different doctor? Of course not. Requesting or even demanding a different nurse or doctor does not equate denying care regardless of the reason. Being a racist does not give the hospital the right to refuse to treat you.

    ~Bonita~

  10. #60
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    I guess we will disagree (not very often that happens Melis). I think it has to be all or nothing. You can either request a change of caretakers when it is unrelated to quality of care or you can't.

    Quality of care.....always allowed to change if you are getting bad care. Theres no ifs, ands, or buts with that for me.

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