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  1. #11
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Exactly Hostess employees would have still had jobs if the unions hadn't gotten in the way.. in fact it was two separate unions colliding and made a mess.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  2. #12
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    I think there may be some confusion. I know with my union, you don't have to join; you can be a non-paying member. You benefit from the bargaining, but you have no protection. My aunt refused to join her entire career. Also, the political contributions can be opted out of. That money is donated to the charity of your choice.

    SO and I were watching Bryant Gumble Real Sports last week. It was about football rules in the NCAA compared to the NFL. There are major issues with football players (and any other sport that takes hits to the head). They have lasting effects long after the initial hit.

    post-concussion syndrome, depression, other mood disorders, personality changes, memory problems and dementia
    Thanks to the collective bargaining of the NFL, many policies have changed and there is long-term medical benefits for players.

    The NCAA doesn't have those protections. One of the college football players interviewed went from a Tier 1 school to flunking out of a Tier 3 school all due to the brain injuries sustained playing football.

    It isn't just football. Another special I watched involved female teenage soccer players.

    What is my point? If you compare the non-union players to the union players, the union protects their players.

    Unions have done wonderful things over time. OSHA, min. wage, working conditions, child-labor laws. Ahh, that's a good one - child labor laws. Do you know in the entertainment industry how many laws regarding child labor would be ignored without studio teachers and OSHA? Right now in 2012.

    Or how many bad calls in football without union refs...LOL

    How about coal miners? When faced with being terminated over refusing to perform your in an unsafe manner, what do you do? With unions, workers in general are protected from having to make that choice.

    Thus, i would have to say no, unions have not "served their purpose."

  3. #13
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    It might depend on the State and the profession. My mom is a nurse in NY and she does not have a choice about being in a union and she does not have a choice about political contributions that she does not agree with.

    I am sure there are situations where unions are still nice. It would be great if China got some unions. There are also situation where unions really hurt. When they demand pay or benefits that are truly unattainable for the company and force the company to close so all those employees lose their jobs.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict boilermaker's Avatar
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    I have a hard time defending corporations and profits. I have a really hard time defending how much money we are paying CEO's these days, as compared with the average employee.

    CHART: Corporate Profits Skyrocket While Corporate Taxes Plummet | ThinkProgress

    But I also have seen the "bad" side of unions. My father was a non-union employee at a steel mill and the unions helped drive them into bankruptcy (they had rules about working conditions that went a bit over the top, ie, if the elevator is broken you don't have to take the stairs to the 10th floor to work, but you will still get paid your wage-- so they would purposely break the elevator kind of thing.....)

    I just wish more corporations had a conscience and paid their employees a living wage and protected their safety. No way do I think unions have totally "run their course" and have no role in our economy today. There is a reason Walmart really really tries to avoid having their employees unionize (and it is the same reason you and I are paying for healthcare for their employees and feeding Walmart employees kids' free lunches whilst the Walmart executives are banking top dollar.)
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    Do you think Walmart would be able to compete if they paid their workers $30 an hour with benefits? (My educated guess to what you would have to make to not qualify for assistance programs). I do not believe that it is reasonable to think that all employees can pay their employees that much.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boilermaker View Post
    (and it is the same reason you and I are paying for healthcare for their employees and feeding Walmart employees kids' free lunches whilst the Walmart executives are banking top dollar.)
    Because the executives went to college and worked to get an education so they could get a higher paying job?
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlyssaEimers View Post
    Do you think Walmart would be able to compete if they paid their workers $30 an hour with benefits? (My educated guess to what you would have to make to not qualify for assistance programs). I do not believe that it is reasonable to think that all employees can pay their employees that much.
    I don't make that much but I do get benefits and do not qualify for a single assistance program even with kids.

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    Asking honestly - Do you know what it would be an hour? I am only using my personal experience of what DH made before and what he makes now. (We qualified for WIC before, but do not now)

    ~Bonita~

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    I read somewhere that the average Wal Mart worker makes $11.75 per hour (around $20,000 per year) which is below the living wage for a single parent family in many places. Many also don't receive healthcare benefits.

    What is considered a living wage varies by region.

    Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

    In my area, a 1 adult, 1 child family needs to make around $21 per hour to make a living wage. Anything below that and they will probably need to be on some sort of assistance because they can't pay the normal living expenses.

    Lest you accuse our single mom of simply living above her means here, let me just say that from my POV the numbers they are using to calculate a living wage in my area are not at all extravagant. I looked at the "projected living expenses" for a person with one child in my area and they include paying around $650 a month in childcare (I have NO idea where you would get daycare that cheap - when mine goes full time I pay $900 a month, and that is pretty average from what I've found) and $357 a month for food (that's less than $100 a week) and around $900 a month for housing which would get you a very small apartment here.

    No mention of the dreaded iPhones or cable TV, so I'm assuming they are either lumped into "Other" at $250 ish a month (for all of your other, including clothes, cleaning supplies and household goods, bills not lumped into "housing", et cetera) or forgotten. So basically, if a single adult with a single child was living an extremely frugal life in my area, she might be able to make it on $21 bucks an hour, otherwise she will probably need some form of assistance.

    Which I guess is fine, if you don't think Wal Mart should have to pay their people more, but then it's like, don't complain that you have to help pay for this woman...she's working full time at a job that pays less than a living wage, and you approve of the company paying her that little, so something has got to give, and that something is most likely coming out of your paycheck.
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 12-19-2012 at 10:45 AM.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    I read somewhere that the average Wal Mart worker makes $11.75 per hour (around $20,000 per year) which is below the living wage for a single parent family in many places. Many also don't receive healthcare benefits.

    What is considered a living wage varies by region.

    Living Wage Calculator - Introduction to the Living Wage Calculator

    In my area, a 1 adult, 1 child family needs to make around $21 per hour to make a living wage. Anything below that and they will probably need to be on some sort of assistance because they can't pay the normal living expenses.

    Lest you accuse our single mom of simply living above her means here, let me just say that from my POV the numbers they are using to calculate a living wage in my area are not at all extravagant. I looked at the "projected living expenses" for a person with one child in my area and they include paying around $650 a month in childcare (I have NO idea where you would get daycare that cheap - when mine goes full time I pay $900 a month, and that is pretty average from what I've found) and $357 a month for food (that's less than $100 a week) and around $900 a month for housing which would get you a very small apartment here.

    No mention of the dreaded iPhones or cable TV, so I'm assuming they are either lumped into "Other" at $250 ish a month (for all of your other, including clothes, cleaning supplies and household goods, bills not lumped into "housing", et cetera) or forgotten. So basically, if a single adult with a single child was living an extremely frugal life in my area, she might be able to make it on $21 bucks an hour, otherwise she will probably need some form of assistance.

    Which I guess is fine, if you don't think Wal Mart should have to pay their people more, but then it's like, don't complain that you have to help pay for this woman...she's working full time at a job that pays less than a living wage, and you approve of the company paying her that little, so something has got to give, and that something is most likely coming out of your paycheck.
    $11.75 is far above the minimum wage. I do not think a retail company could afford to pay much more than that. Do you know of another retail company that pays its cashiers more than $21 an hour? Do you think Walmart could afford to pay its employees $21/hour while the store across the street pays its employees $8/hour?

    ~Bonita~

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