Ruffled Feathers Over Duck Dynasty

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Alissa_Sal's picture
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Ruffled Feathers Over Duck Dynasty

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Duck Dynasty family, GOP defend Phil Robertson - chicagotribune.com

Was A&E right to suspend him? Is this a First Amendment issue? Any other thoughts?

Joined: 04/12/03
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)

Duck Dynasty family, GOP defend Phil Robertson - chicagotribune.com

Was A&E right to suspend him? Is this a First Amendment issue? Any other thoughts?

Of course it's not a first amendment issue. He can say whatever he wants. That doesn't mean it's without consequences.

The Dixie Chicks' Travelin' Soldier was number 1 on the country charts the week she made her infamous comments. The next week it dropped to number 3; then disappeared from the charts the following week right along with their career.

Freedom of speech essentially means he won't be censored by the government or have other legal consequences from the government. He didn't. His employer dropped him. The same thing would happen to me.

It doesn't really matter if they were right to fire him or not. It was their right to do so and they exercised their rights.

Now, if I were in the same position, yeah, I would make the same decision. I wouldn't want them representing.

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
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ITA with EthanWinfield. The family says, "We are disappointed that Phil has been placed on hiatus for expressing his faith, which is his constitutionally protected right." No, it was because the network doesn't want to employ a known bigot which is its right, and I'd even say its responsibility as a good corporate citizen. Mr. Robertson has the right to have his own religious beliefs; he doesn't have the right to share them in public without some kind of consequence. I'm waiting for the day when the firing of a hateful bigot does NOT result in people jumping to his or her defense, but sadly it probably won't be in my lifetime.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I agree that I don't think that it's a First Amendment issue. You have a right to air your opinions without having the government kick in your door and arrest you. That doesn't mean that there are (or even should be) zero social consequences for airing your opinions. I considered also whether this would be protected under the anti-discrimination laws that say that people cannot be fired for their religion, but I don't think that can be argued either. He wasn't fired for "coming out" as a Christian, which would entail a pro-Christian message such as "I am a Christian and I accept Jesus as my lord and savior." He was fired for saying something that is "anti" someone else - to me, those are two very different things, and being "anti" other groups of people is not protected under the anti-discrimination laws. I totally understand why A&E does not feel that he is a good representative of their company, and think that they were within their rights to fire him, just as the people that are now threatening to boycott A&E are within their rights to boycott A&E (but are you REALLY not going to watch Walking Dead when it comes back on? Come on people, be realistic here! LOL) So, I think everyone has acted within their rights.

Having said all that, I am feeling very "Love the sinner; hate the sin" this Solstice season. As much as I dislike naked homophobia, I can't help but conclude that heaping more disdain on homophobes doesn't seem to be changing their mind and heal what is broken inside them. Perhaps we can love them well instead? Maybe even have therapy sessions to convert them from being homophobes into normal loving people? Dirol

AlyssaEimers's picture
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A&E can hire/fire whoever they want to. However, the very thing they are trying to promote - tolerance - they are not. I know a lot of people that watch Duck Dynasty. I also know of a lot of people who are now going to boycott the show. My take home of the whole issue is that I wish there was a way on FB to block all posts of a certain topic so I did not have to see all of the posts about it.

Joined: 04/12/03
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

A&E can hire/fire whoever they want to. However, the very thing they are trying to promote - tolerance - they are not. I know a lot of people that watch Duck Dynasty. I also know of a lot of people who are now going to boycott the show. My take home of the whole issue is that I wish there was a way on FB to block all posts of a certain topic so I did not have to see all of the posts about it.

I cannot promote tolerance of some of those comments he "stands behind."

I'm adding this to my list of excuses I am tired of hearing. Things don't change if we continue to just "tolerate" others lest we be called intolerant.

So call me intolerant; I don't care. I'm not going to defend or support people who hate on others. I'll defend their right to say what they want with the caveat that consequences can sometimes be a real bi.tch.

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Of course he had every right to say what he said.

A&E had every right to distance themselves in order to support any views they want to support.

ftmom's picture
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I just totally blew up my own facebook with a comment about how I am tired of all the support memes I keep seeing for this guy, that he should be held accountable for his horrible comments and that it is not a free speech issue. It is not like me to make comments like that and start ****, but this totally ticked me off. Not so much cause he said it, but that so many people are getting behind him without really understanding the situation. Anyways, I think I may have been defriended by a couple people :/

Alissa_Sal's picture
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I always think the tolerance argument is silly. If not being willing to look the other way when people are bullying an oppressed minority makes me "intolerant" then I'll wear that badge proudly.

Joined: 04/12/03
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“I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person," Robertson is quoted in GQ. "Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I’m with the blacks, because we’re white trash. We’re going across the field.... They’re singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, ‘I tell you what: These doggone white people’—not a word!... Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues.”

This parts seems to keep getting lost, or maybe just left out, of all the memes on my facebook.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I always think the tolerance argument is silly. If not being willing to look the other way when people are bullying an oppressed minority makes me "intolerant" then I'll wear that badge proudly.

You should not either be able to bully someone out of having an opinion even if you think that opinion is wrong.

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Let's give the topic a different issue. Say it is politically correct to believe everyone should carry a gun. Would it be right (right, not legal) would it be fair if any time you sated your opinion publicly you lost your job or were blackballed? Or if you lived back in the day that it was not politically correct to believe in interracial marriage, speaking up against it or believing it could get make you loose your job and really cramp your future. Right now public opinion is on your side with this issue, but do you really want it to be that any time you have a non politically correct opinion you are black balled? Because there is going to come a time when you have an opinion that is not politically correct.

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Say I was against guns (and I pretty much am) and I was working as a salesperson for a gun manufacturer (say Smith and Wesson) and I go around saying how dangerous they can be. S&W has every right to fire me for hurting their business. A&E feels this hurts their business.

I can't say whatever I want at work. It's my opinion that some of the people I deal with are snotty jerks but if I said that to them I would be, at the very least, written up if not fired. It's not without repercussions.

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"Jessica80" wrote:

Say I was against guns (and I pretty much am) and I was working as a salesperson for a gun manufacturer (say Smith and Wesson) and I go around saying how dangerous they can be. S&W has every right to fire me for hurting their business. A&E feels this hurts their business.

I can't say whatever I want at work. It's my opinion that some of the people I deal with are snotty jerks but if I said that to them I would be, at the very least, written up if not fired. It's not without repercussions.

If you read back, I did say A&E can fire whoever they want. My point is, that you might not think it was so great to black ball anyone who is against homosexuality, but I am sure you would feel differently if it was a different topic. For example if A&E was firing someone for speaking in favour of homosexuality. Not that it is illegal, but that it is a jerky thing to do. I also do not think it is going to be smart business. I do not have any hard facts, but I think it will hurt the show and A&E.

mom3girls's picture
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Have any of you read the full article?

I was offended by what he said at first until our friends from church brought over the actual article, and then explained why they are not offended (they are a gay couple) Still not sure how I feel about what he said, his manner of speech is hard to understand anyways, and this article is a little all over the place. I will say for sure that the media has copied and pasted the quotes out of context.

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I knew I'd find this topic here!

Here's what I think: I think the whole reason they hired him, the reason that show is successful, is because of who the Robertsons are. His views can not possibly be a surprise to A&E. The Robertsons are speaking and preaching in churches all over the country these days.

They can't fire him anyway, he's a member of the family and THEY'RE not firing him. So how are they going to shoot around that? It's his home!

And bottom line, all A&E had to do was to hold tight to their cash cow and distance themselves not from him, but from his opinion. They can tell the world that they think he's wrong and that they don't agree, and they can keep those views off the air. But all this uproar is silly and they way overreacted. Who is surprised by this opinion? They're billionaire rednecks, that's how the show is billed.

So I think it was silly of them to claim that he's suspended from filming, he's all over the new season anyway. It doesn't mean anything. By the time the new season airs (after the one coming that's already shot & edited) this will have died down.

Bad choice of a reaction. Dumb business move. These guys are making a ridiculous amount of money for that network and the reason they're popular is precisely because of who they are!

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

You should not either be able to bully someone out of having an opinion even if you think that opinion is wrong.

I don't even know what "bully someone out of having an opinion" means in the context of this debate.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Let's give the topic a different issue. Say it is politically correct to believe everyone should carry a gun. Would it be right (right, not legal) would it be fair if any time you sated your opinion publicly you lost your job or were blackballed? Or if you lived back in the day that it was not politically correct to believe in interracial marriage, speaking up against it or believing it could get make you loose your job and really cramp your future. Right now public opinion is on your side with this issue, but do you really want it to be that any time you have a non politically correct opinion you are black balled? Because there is going to come a time when you have an opinion that is not politically correct.

I would say that politically correct or not, there is a big difference between standing up for people and standing against people. I don't care whether his opinion is popular. Certainly I harbor some unpopular opinions myself (try being no religious in this country sometime!) But if I went around being rude about other groups of people who are just trying to live their lives and have the same rights as anyone else (ex. "Christians are stupid and bad!" - not my real opinion, btw) then people would treat me like a jerk, and rightly so, because I would be acting like a jerk!

eta: When I first began supporting gay marriage, the majority of Americans were against it. It's not about what is popular or "politically correct." It's about what is right.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

It's about what is right.

It is about what "You" think is right.

However, the people will be the ones who decide because they either will continue to watch the show or they will not in this situation. I do not however, think there is a difference between being fired for saying you believe homosexuality is wrong and being fired for saying you do not believe in Christianity. Both are being fired for a belief.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

It is about what "You" think is right.

However, the people will be the ones who decide because they either will continue to watch the show or they will not in this situation. I do not however, think there is a difference between being fired for saying you believe homosexuality is wrong and being fired for saying you do not believe in Christianity. Both are being fired for a belief.

The majority of people who watch the show tend to align with the Robertsons' beliefs....they'll keep watching. And he's not bullied, or fired, or any of those things.

He did say some really awful things and the smart thing for A&E to do is to distance themselves from his opinions, clearly and strongly. But he's a redneck hick! That's his thing! Of course he is bigoted when it comes to homosexuality. He said ridiculous things about black people too! (I figured the Jews were next but it didn't come up.) He's not a sophisticated person. That's why he's so popular. Still, people relate to his family because they really are a loving group who care about each other and are who they are, no matter how silly the plots of the show get. Again, I don't understand how A&E could have been surprised by any of this. I used to work there and they all knew he was a hick.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

It is about what "You" think is right.

However, the people will be the ones who decide because they either will continue to watch the show or they will not in this situation. I do not however, think there is a difference between being fired for saying you believe homosexuality is wrong and being fired for saying you do not believe in Christianity. Both are being fired for a belief.

No, they are different. I am not attacking anyone else by simply saying that I don't believe in Christianity. I'm not insulting my company's customers. If he simply said that he was a Christian and got fired for it, that would be wrong. That's not what happened.

And history is going to be on my side Bonita. Just like how the vast majority of people now disagree with Jim Crow laws (but not this guy, apparently! He didn't JUST say terrible things about gay people, he also said black people were happier under Jim Crow!!!!) some day the vast majority of people will support equal rights for gay people, because that is the only position that is kind, and logical, and fair. Try to make a coherent argument about how it is fair to deny any group equal rights in this country. It doesn't work. That's not "just my opinion."

Laurie- I get what you're saying, and maybe it is a dumb business move on their part (and ultimately an empty gesture if they were done filming anyway!)

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

No, they are different. I am not attacking anyone else by simply saying that I don't believe in Christianity. I'm not insulting my company's customers. If he simply said that he was a Christian and got fired for it, that would be wrong. That's not what happened.

And history is going to be on my side Bonita. Just like how the vast majority of people now disagree with Jim Crow laws (but not this guy, apparently! He didn't JUST say terrible things about gay people, he also said black people were happier under Jim Crow!!!!) some day the vast majority of people will support equal rights for gay people, because that is the only position that is kind, and logical, and fair. Try to make a coherent argument about how it is fair to deny any group equal rights in this country. It doesn't work. That's not "just my opinion."

Laurie- I get what you're saying, and maybe it is a dumb business move on their part (and ultimately an empty gesture if they were done filming anyway!)

I agree 100% with everything here. History is definitely going to show that all the anti-gay stuff is bigotry, pure and simple.

This isn't a religious issue or a freedom of speech issue. It's really a business issue, in terms of what the network decides to do. Otherwise I'm not sure why it matters what Phil Robertson says. He's a self-proclaimed redneck hick, of course he's ignorant when it comes to gays and black people (even though he has a black grandson).

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
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I didn't read a lot of the replies yet because I'm too excited to post, haha.

Freedom of speech equals freedom of consequences at times. If I was to go picket in front of my place of employment and say that healthcare costs too much and doctor's are money hungry, hell yes I would lose my job (I'm not saying I really think those things, it's just an example). Or if someone in the military says something inapropriate, then they will also suffer consequences. No place of employment should ever tolerate bigotry, and there should never be an excuse for bigotry.

Didn't he group homosexuals to bestiality as well? Absolutely disgusting. And anyone who can support someone that speaks like that is just as disgusting.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

No, they are different.

It is absolutely 100% the same. Most people who say they think homosexuality is wrong believe so because they believe the Bible says it is wrong. That is a religious belief. I am not saying someone can not be fired for stating a religious belief or trying to share it, but that is what it is. It is not at all different from being fired for saying there is no God (also offensive to some people), or any other religious belief.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Nope, sorry. It's different. Saying I'm an atheist is not an attack on any other group. Clearly, equating gays (or anyone else) to people who have sex with animals or murderers, or any of the gross things he said IS an attack on another group. If I say "Christians are like murderers" I'm attacking them. If I say "I'm not a Christian" I am not. People may be offended that I'm not a Christian, but that's their own deal that they need to work out for themselves. A simple statement of not being a Christian or of being an atheist is not an attack on anyone.

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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

Nope, sorry. It's different. Saying I'm an atheist is not an attack on any other group. Clearly, equating gays (or anyone else) to people who have sex with animals or murderers, or any of the gross things he said IS an attack on another group. If I say "Christians are like murderers" I'm attacking them. If I say "I'm not a Christian" I am not. People may be offended that I'm not a Christian, but that's their own deal that they need to work out for themselves. A simple statement of not being a Christian or of being an atheist is not an attack on anyone.

I did not say for being an Atheist, I said for saying you did not believe in God or Christianity. There is no difference in that and in saying you do not believe in Homosexuality.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

I did not say for being an Atheist, I said for saying you did not believe in God or Christianity. There is no difference in that and in saying you do not believe in Homosexuality.

Being an Atheist means the person doesn't believe God even exists. People who don't believe in homosexuality just don't like it and think it's wrong. They know it exists and happens everyday.

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"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

Being an Atheist means the person doesn't believe God even exists. People who don't believe in homosexuality just don't like it and think it's wrong. They know it exists and happens everyday.

They both are beliefs. It is not a debate about weather or not his opinion or beliefs are wrong as I am sure most people believe they are. It is about weather or not you should be fired for expressing your religious or other beliefs. You don't get to say "Well his religious belief is wrong and a bunch of hogwash so he does not get to express it, but my religious beliefs are right so I can."

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

They both are beliefs. It is not a debate about weather or not his opinion or beliefs are wrong as I am sure most people believe they are. It is about weather or not you should be fired for expressing your religious or other beliefs. You don't get to say "Well his religious belief is wrong and a bunch of hogwash so he does not get to express it, but my religious beliefs are right so I can."

Ok so I'm not religious at all and my beliefs are based on that I believe there should be equal rights for all people and homosexuality is not bestiality. Soooooooo what am I doing? Expressing what?

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"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

Ok so I'm not religious at all and my beliefs are based on that I believe there should be equal rights for all people and homosexuality is not bestiality. Soooooooo what am I doing? Expressing what?

The belief that there is no God is still a belief. It can not be proven factually either way so whether or not you believe in a God is a belief system.

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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

The belief that there is no God is still a belief. It can not be proven factually either way so whether or not you believe in a God is a belief system.

I said I wasn't religious. I didn't bring up God.

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"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

I said I wasn't religious. I didn't bring up God.

Weather or not you are religious is a belief system.

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Double Post

ftmom's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Weather or not you are religious is a belief system.

Yes, but her belief that all people should be equal and homosexuality is not the same as bestiality is independent from her religious beliefs. I am religious and I believe the same as her, as do many people of many different religions, non religions. They are separate from each other.

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"ftmom" wrote:

Yes, but her belief that all people should be equal and homosexuality is not the same as bestiality is independent from her religious beliefs. I am religious and I believe the same as her, as do many people of many different religions, non religions. They are separate from each other.

Regardless of what it is, it a belief. Someone being fired for stating what they believe in. It doesn't matter what the person believes, it is that they are staying what they believe. The argument I am hearing is "You can state what you believe if I agree with you." "You can not state what you believe if I disagree with you." It does not matter what the belief is. Either you can have an opinion or you can not. There is no difference between getting fired for saying you think homosexuality is wrong and getting fired for saying homosexuality is right or ok. There is no difference between getting fired for saying there is no God and for getting fired for saying you believe in God. That is not to say that I do not think people should be able to legally be fired for any reason. The only difference I am hearing is that you are saying "Well I am right so I should be able to express my opinion and you are wrong so you should not be able to express yours".

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"I believe homosexuality is a sin." I can accept that as someone's religious beliefs. But explaining what a vagina has to offer and what an anus does not, that is no longer a religious belief.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
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Bonita, if places of employment allowed people to talk about what they believed in (like homosexuality and Obama) it would be horrible. You know how much harassment and turmoil would be going on?! Patients on an everyday basis always want to bring up personal debates and all I do is smile and tell them to have a nice day. Because you know what would happen if I debated with them? They would complain and I would get fired (because I disagree with most of them, lol)

What would you do if you went somewhere, saw two men kissing, and you told the employee "ewww, homosexuals are disgusting" and the employee told you that you are a bigot? I bet you would complain to the manager and assume that employee would be fired.

ftmom's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

Regardless of what it is, it a belief. Someone being fired for stating what they believe in. It doesn't matter what the person believes, it is that they are staying what they believe. The argument I am hearing is "You can state what you believe if I agree with you." "You can not state what you believe if I disagree with you." It does not matter what the belief is. Either you can have an opinion or you can not. There is no difference between getting fired for saying you think homosexuality is wrong and getting fired for saying homosexuality is right or ok. There is no difference between getting fired for saying there is no God and for getting fired for saying you believe in God. That is not to say that I do not think people should be able to legally be fired for any reason. The only difference I am hearing is that you are saying "Well I am right so I should be able to express my opinion and you are wrong so you should not be able to express yours".

I would say it is more that if your company agrees with your belief then go ahead and say it and you wont get fired, but if your company disagrees with your belief and you say it loud enough, then yes, you could be fired. If he worked for chik-fil-a he would probably still have a job.

But lets take it away from work. You are basically saying that anyone should be able to express any belief they want, and that is true. However, that doesnt mean that other people arent allowed to disagree with you. I have just as much right to say that what he said is wrong, as the next person does to say that he is right. It just happens that the tide is turning on homosexuality being accepted right now, so their are more people out there who are voicing their disagreement with his comments then agreeing. And actually, if you visit my facebook news feed you would find it the other way. There are tons of support memes that everyone lets pass by and yet I got jumped on when I said I thought he was a douche and should have been fired.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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Bonita, I don't support him being fired simply because I happen to disagree with him. There are a lot of "beliefs" that people can have and express that I disagree with that should not have gotten him fired. For example, he could have stated "I don't believe in evolution." I strongly disagree with people who deny evolution, but to me that would have been a ridiculous thing to be fired over. He was fired for attacking a group of people. All of the other examples that you listed are not attacking anyone. They aren't the same. They just aren't.

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There are beliefs, and then there's bigotry. All along, the Robertsons have talked about God and their relationship to Jesus, and their religion, and nobody has batted an eye. THOSE are religious beliefs.

It's when Phil Robertson showed BIGOTRY and expressed it in a national magazine that things took a turn. You can keep saying it's in the Bible all you want, but as has been pointed out hundreds of times, there are a lot of things in the Bible that people understand are cultural and historical and don't apply, such as views of women, of slaves, etc. When you tell a national audience that you think homosexuality is equated with bestiality, that is a whole other ball game. When you say that black people were happy under Jim Crow, that's another ball game.

He wasn't fired for his religious beliefs. First of all, he wasn't fired. They said "suspended from shooting" which really means nothing. Second, it wasn't his religious beliefs because MANY MANY CHRISTIANS DO NOT AGREE WITH HIM. It was his INTERPRETATION and his bigoted one at that.

He has the right to express his opinion and his employers have the right to choose to stop putting him on tv. What I think is really stupid on their part is that Angel they knew he was ignorant on these topics already; (b) you can't stop someone from filming when the filming happens in his house with his wife and children; (c) his show is responsible for half the revenue at A&E right now; and (d) the new season starts airing in a few weeks and he's in it 100%.

I think A&E made a stupid BUSINESS decision and I think they should have known this was coming...I sure did. I worked there but didn't have any personal dealings with them at all, but I knew they'd need a plan in place for such a thing.

But on a basic level, he didn't get in trouble for being religious. He got in trouble for making public statements expressing his bigotry.

Rivergallery's picture
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I read the whole article by GQ - and what he had said about blacks -
what he said about blacks was - the ones he worked with were godly and happy.. not sure how that is negative? he didn't live during slavery!
re homosexuality--- he is quoting 1 Corinthians..
1 Corinthians 6:8-10
English Standard Version (ESV)
8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud—even your own brothers![a]

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,

10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

and in the same article he discusses loving the sinner.. he also admits to the same sins that are in the same quote in 1 Corinthians. so NOT sure how he is hatefilled. This all to say

1 Timothy 1:9-11
English Standard Version (ESV)
9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,[a] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

also discusses Homosexuality as a sin. And this is just in the NT, where it discusses Homosexuality specifically.

I was not a Duck Dynasty fan. I do not have television and am not into pop culture.
I think now I am. a DD fan.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
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Rivergallery, so you support someone who equates homosexuality with bestiality?? Ok gotcha.

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Posts: 1301

"mommytoMR.FACE" wrote:

Rivergallery, so you support someone who equates homosexuality with bestiality?? Ok gotcha.

He was not equating them.. he is saying they are all sin and they are.

Ex 22:19
Lv 20:15,16

AGAIN - HE SAID he also was a sinner - IE drunkard and abuser.. etc and confessed those sins publicly.. he also said he did not judge those sinners! that Only God judges them.. read the entire interview.. and know that many things were left out... also the interviewer was very rude/crass and swore in the interview etc... where Phil and Family never do.. things were cut and edited to make him seem evil where he was not..

He was quoting the Bible.. and as far as hiring and firing.. far as I know it is illegal to fire for religious grounds. Secondly they hired him specifically because of his right wing religious views.. that is like hiring a conservative Muslim family to do a reality TV show and be upset about their inequality toward women and that they make their women cover themselves in public for example... pure silliness.

I personally think it is more a publicity stunt on A&E's part to bring more attention to the show.. or their production company (that they stand up for "equality" etc..) than anything else.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Joined: 04/10/09
Posts: 781

"Describing "sin" as "not logical," he said: "Start with homosexual behaviour and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men."

OOOOOOH I'm sorry! You support someone who thinks gay lifestyle will lead to bestiality. Man, big difference there! Hide your dogs and horses... Teh gays are coming! :rolleyes:

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

It is understandable that homosexual behavior would not be logical = reasonable (one of the accepted definitions) to a hetrosexual male.. he sees vaginas as much more attractive than a mans anus.. and yes sin may beget other sin.. once you allow one type of sin and say SIN is ok.. and not only that.. but LABEL yourself as that sin.. and say it is GOOD and I AM A XYZ.. it is like saying I am a LIER or a THIEF or a DRUNKARD and being ok with it.. and not only that but being HAPPY about it.. Yes it may and could lead to other sins.

Funny.. now.. how many gays.. agree with him..and still like DD. check out their facebook page..

like I said I wasn't a fan before.. I only even watched a couple episodes.

In fact in editing they eliminated a LOT of the gun talk and GOD talk from their episodes before final publication.. in the prayers they usually said in Jesus Name and that was eliminated.

might want to go read the interview and see where Phil talks about that he isn't the judge that God is.. and how rude the interviewer talks/types swear words and all.. .

Again.. why hire a family that is KNOWN to have these beliefs and then be aghast when they publicly state them.
Secondly.. it is illegal to fire someone for their religious beliefs. Let alone harass them.

You have not answered those questions.. instead you have decided to MOCK a religious belief.
If you want to mock Biblical verses be careful.. there are verses... IN context.. not taken out of context.. Regarding that
here is just one.. please be careful what you mock.

Proverbs 19:27-29
English Standard Version (ESV)
27 Cease to hear instruction, my son,
and you will stray from the words of knowledge.
28 A worthless witness mocks at justice,
and the mouth of the wicked devours iniquity.
29 Condemnation is ready for scoffers,
and beating for the backs of fools.

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

"Rivergallery" wrote:

they hired him specifically because of his right wing religious views.. that is like hiring a conservative Muslim family to do a reality TV show and be upset about their inequality toward women and that they make their women cover themselves in public for example... pure silliness.

They didn't hire him BECAUSE of his right wing religious views but they know that a huge part of the family's popularity is their Christianity. So I agree with your Muslim analogy, I think it's dead on. I still think they should have publicly distanced themselves from his statement and his opinion.

They didn't fire him, though. They "suspended him from filming" which I believe will add up to a whole lot of nothing. They didn't pull his paycheck, even, as far as I know!

Joined: 03/08/03
Posts: 3189

"Rivergallery" wrote:

Funny.. now.. how many gays.. agree with him..and still like DD. check out their facebook page..

.

You think gay people agree with him that homosexuality is like bestiality? I do not think so.

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

"Rivergallery" wrote:

It is understandable that homosexual behavior would not be logical = reasonable (one of the accepted definitions) to a hetrosexual male.. he sees vaginas as much more attractive than a mans anus.. and yes sin may beget other sin.. once you allow one type of sin and say SIN is ok.. and not only that.. but LABEL yourself as that sin.. and say it is GOOD and I AM A XYZ.. it is like saying I am a LIER or a THIEF or a DRUNKARD and being ok with it.. and not only that but being HAPPY about it.. Yes it may and could lead to other sins.

Funny.. now.. how many gays.. agree with him..and still like DD. check out their facebook page..

like I said I wasn't a fan before.. I only even watched a couple episodes.

In fact in editing they eliminated a LOT of the gun talk and GOD talk from their episodes before final publication.. in the prayers they usually said in Jesus Name and that was eliminated.

might want to go read the interview and see where Phil talks about that he isn't the judge that God is.. and how rude the interviewer talks/types swear words and all.. .

Again.. why hire a family that is KNOWN to have these beliefs and then be aghast when they publicly state them.
Secondly.. it is illegal to fire someone for their religious beliefs. Let alone harass them.

You have not answered those questions.. instead you have decided to MOCK a religious belief.
If you want to mock Biblical verses be careful.. there are verses... IN context.. not taken out of context.. Regarding that
here is just one.. please be careful what you mock.

Proverbs 19:27-29
English Standard Version (ESV)
27 Cease to hear instruction, my son,
and you will stray from the words of knowledge.
28 A worthless witness mocks at justice,
and the mouth of the wicked devours iniquity.
29 Condemnation is ready for scoffers,
and beating for the backs of fools.

Greed
Gluttony
Sloth
Envy
Anger
Lust
Pride

All sins yet exploited as both money-makers and some are considered positive characteristics.

We don't view it as a sin if people want to earn billions of dollars, in fact we side with them if the idea of sharing their wealth is even mentioned. We dodn't view it as sin for Victoria's Secret to have a fashion show designed to fill men's hearts with lust. The entire video game industry caters to those who are okay with being lazy. Restaurant industry caters to those who embrace their gluttonous selves.

If sins other than homosexuality bothered Christians so much, why not boycott Miley Cyrus? Victoria's Secret? Donald Trump? Shows like Cops? Or support a ban on restaurants serving a gluttonous amount of soda? Or things that allow us to be lazy?

Why the hypocrasy? Just like I don't need you to save me from consuming too much or earning too much money, I don't need you to save me from sleeping with someone you don't approve of. We balk at laws that prevent us from choosing our own sinful behavior until it comes to what two men do in the bedroom together.

If the *only* reason something is illegal/banned is because the bible says it is a sin, we really need to rethink that. Or...make all sins illegal since we have to save people from themselves. Or did I miss it and we are just trying to save the gays?

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

"freddieflounder101" wrote:

You think gay people agree with him that homosexuality is like bestiality? I do not think so.

Again.. you are reading sound bites.. you are not reading what he said.. nor what his fans agree with.

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

"ethanwinfield" wrote:

Greed
Gluttony
Sloth
Envy
Anger
Lust
Pride

All sins yet exploited as both money-makers and some are considered positive characteristics.

We don't view it as a sin if people want to earn billions of dollars, in fact we side with them if the idea of sharing their wealth is even mentioned. We dodn't view it as sin for Victoria's Secret to have a fashion show designed to fill men's hearts with lust. The entire video game industry caters to those who are okay with being lazy. Restaurant industry caters to those who embrace their gluttonous selves.

If sins other than homosexuality bothered Christians so much, why not boycott Miley Cyrus? Victoria's Secret? Donald Trump? Shows like Cops? Or support a ban on restaurants serving a gluttonous amount of soda? Or things that allow us to be lazy?

Why the hypocrasy? Just like I don't need you to save me from consuming too much or earning too much money, I don't need you to save me from sleeping with someone you don't approve of. We balk at laws that prevent us from choosing our own sinful behavior until it comes to what two men do in the bedroom together.

If the *only* reason something is illegal/banned is because the bible says it is a sin, we really need to rethink that. Or...make all sins illegal since we have to save people from themselves. Or did I miss it and we are just trying to save the gays?

A Christian Should do the things you mentioned but we are ALL sinners.. and a true Christian would be the first one to admit they are a sinner. If you look at the whole of Phil's ministry .. what I have seen so far.. not sure what you have seen.. I have been doing some digging.. maybe look into more than just some quotes and sound bites taken out of context. he admits he is a sinner.

The Christians I know do not like what Miley Cyrus did.. did you not notice the outrage? we had a whole debate about it!? the Victoria Secret... well most of the more conservative families I know do not even have even Women's Day allowed into their home let alone Victoria Secret catalogs. Donald Trump..

On the other hand.. Phil points out.. we are NOT to judge salvation.

We judge right from wrong.. IE sin but not salvation.. that is of GOD.

We all sin..
Romans 3:22-24
English Standard Version (ESV)
22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Hypocrisy.. none are perfect.. except Jesus... that is why we need his blood to go to heaven.

Again.. no one likes to answer the question.. but instead ask another.. or point and mock.

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

"freddieflounder101" wrote:

You think gay people agree with him that homosexuality is like bestiality? I do not think so.

Some do.. like this one.. he is one.. of MANY Christians I agree with. Smilehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Be0eVggGhc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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