Ryan Dunn Death/Ebert

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Ryan Dunn Death/Ebert

Ryan Dunn‘s untimely death yesterday has come as a shock to many. He was involved in a fatal car crash, along with his passenger, after losing control of his Porsche 911 that resulted in a horrible accident. What everyone’s talking about now is how Ryan was drinking before the crash and reports conflict as to how much was alcohol was consumed. Dunn posed for pictures outside the bar he was drinking at with friends, and he did look quite flushed. Reports confirm that he has at least three beers and three shots while there. The autopsy’s currently underway to see whether booze had anything to do with crash or not, but either way, the internet’s already buzzing with both condolences and debate.

One controversy that’s brewing at the moment is due to a tweet by caustic critic Roger Ebert who wrote, “Friends don’t let jackasses drink and drive. The backlash from the comment has been tremendous and none more so than from Dunn’s friend and co-star Bam Margera who tweeted in return, “I just lost my best friend, I have been crying hysterical for a full day and piece of s—t roger ebert has the gall to put in his 2 cents”. Bam followed up with another tweet that raged, “About a jackass drunk driving and his is one, f—k you! Millions of people are crying right now, shut your fat f—ing mouth!”

Ebert’s been silent since then tweeting about other subjects. The only time he touched upon the subject again was when PerezHilton went at him in a post that read, “We certainly agree that driving after drinking is wrong, we think there’s no reason – especially RIGHT NOW – that anyone should be pointing fingers or poking fun at a truly tragic situation. Everyone makes mistake, and this is somebody’s son. Too soon, Roger.” Not that it’s affected Ebert who wrote back with, “Perez Hilton’s readers agree with me and not with Perez about my tweet on Ryan Dunn. He drank, he drove, 2 people died.” And that’s all he’s willing to say. We aren’t fans of Ebert, FYI. We are completely against drinking and driving (and have lost friends because of it), but the fact is that there’s a time and a place to discuss things. Sounding like a jackass right after someone has passed away, isn’t the way to go. R.I.P Ryan.

Do you agree with the bolded? Does it matter that toxicology reports have not yet come back, and that Ebert was only posting/condemning on the assumption of drunkenness? Should it not be mentioned out of "respect" or is the wake of a accident of this nature the BEST time to address issues of the dangers of drinking and driving and speeding?

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

It is interesting to think about it. My gut reaction is that Ebert's comments were wrong. It was too harsh and disrespectful considering the man has just died.

At the same time though, had Dunn been some nobody that no one ever heard of who drove drunk, killing his passenger and himself...i think people would be very quick to call him a literal jackass and show very little sympathy or respect in their comments. Of course then again, the comments would be from other nobodies, not from Ebert.

I do think the right thing to do is to remain respectful of the deceased....but I don't really think we should come down any harder on Ebert than we would on some random guys comments in a less media frenzied drunk driving incident.

I don't think its wrong to point out the dangers of drinking in driving soon after a tragedy like this happens. It would be better to be done with some respect and serious voice.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

You know what they say about assuming! And another one about opinions and a$$holes seems to apply here.

I'm a big fan of having facts (if available) before I run my mouth about anything and I usually expect the same of other people so I think it was a little prematurely said.

wlillie's picture
Joined: 09/17/07
Posts: 1796

"KimPossible" wrote:

I don't think its wrong to point out the dangers of drinking in driving soon after a tragedy like this happens. It would be better to be done with some respect and serious voice.

This. I'm pretty sure alcohol was part of this accident and I really do feel for the people grieving because it's an accident that probably wouldn't have happened if someone had taken the keys away from him.

Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261

Like PP said, no-one really knows the facts. Although, going by the picture RD posted a few hours before do seem to tell a story.

I think Ebert's comments are fair BUT - literally hours after these guys perished. That was not necessary one bit and he should be ashamed for that reason alone.

xx

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

"momW" wrote:

You know what they say about assuming! And another one about opinions and a$$holes seems to apply here.

I'm a big fan of having facts (if available) before I run my mouth about anything and I usually expect the same of other people so I think it was a little prematurely said.

I have no doubt that the tox report will show that he was legally quite intoxicated and there will probably be several other illegal drugs in his system. Lets say that those results are released today, does that change your view and make Ebert's statements of yesterday okay?

Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261

"Potter75" wrote:

I have no doubt that the tox report will show that he was legally quite intoxicated and there will probably be several other illegal drugs in his system. Lets say that those results are released today, does that change your view and make Ebert's statements of yesterday okay?

I know that isn't aimed at me to answer, BUT, no. Does it heck make it ok. At the end of the day these 2 guys have family and friends that are grieving the loss of them and the last thing they should have to read or hear is people bad mouthing them. I am sure they would not agree with the action RD decided to take but it hadn't even been 24hrs after they'd passed.

xx

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"Minx_Kristi" wrote:

I know that isn't aimed at me to answer, BUT, no. Does it heck make it ok. At the end of the day these 2 guys have family and friends that are grieving the loss of them and the last thing they should have to read or hear is people bad mouthing them. I am sure they would not agree with the action RD decided to take but it hadn't even been 24hrs after they'd passed.

xx

What if we read about a drunk driving incident in the paper, where the actions of the driver caused the loss of life for another person..don't know who the guy is, just know what he did and what his name is...and someone here referred to the drunk driver as a jackass? I'm pretty certain I've seen this before. If not here, just in random conversation and no one says "Hey, you shouldn't say that." At least not usually. Drunk drivers are typically demonized very quickly.

I'm not saying i agree with it. Just saying its a double standard.

momW's picture
Joined: 09/29/09
Posts: 5634

"Potter75" wrote:

I have no doubt that the tox report will show that he was legally quite intoxicated and there will probably be several other illegal drugs in his system. Lets say that those results are released today, does that change your view and make Ebert's statements of yesterday okay?

Well, no. (there's a freaking elf swinging on my screen. um, have I just not had enough caffeine this morning or is this for real). I think it was an a$$hole thing to say and said prematurely, but there are a$$holes everywhere, in our lives and in Hollywood. It just is what it is. You don't like what he said, don't listen to him.

And FTR, I have several pictures of myself where I'm mid blink and hot and someone takes the picture and I look like I'm drunk or stoned (I'm neither). I'm just not going to jump to that conclusion, especially if I'm famous and have to recant to that many people if it should come out that he wasn't drunk.

I get the upset by his close friends and family, but I don't get the general public outrage about the comments. There's no doubt in my mind that someone in the general public (probably a few someone's) have said the exact same thing.

Minx_Kristi's picture
Joined: 01/02/09
Posts: 1261

"KimPossible" wrote:

What if we read about a drunk driving incident in the paper, where the actions of the driver caused the loss of life for another person..don't know who the guy is, just know what he did and what his name is...and someone here referred to the drunk driver as a jackass? I'm pretty certain I've seen this before. If not here, just in random conversation and no one says "Hey, you shouldn't say that." At least not usually. Drunk drivers are typically demonized very quickly.

I'm not saying I agree with it. Just saying its a double standard.

Well yes, if the guy caused someone else to die but is still alive himself then he is a total a$$wipe. If he died too, he's still an a$$wipe and yes I would probably say it to family or friends, but I wouldn't broadcast my thoughts online.

xx

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"Minx_Kristi" wrote:

Well yes, if the guy caused someone else to die but is still alive himself then he is a total a$$wipe. If he died too, he's still an a$$wipe and yes I would probably say it to family or friends, but I wouldn't broadcast my thoughts online.

xx

Don't both show a lack of respect to the deceased though? I don't think its respectful just because its said in a less public setting.

daniellevmt's picture
Joined: 07/25/06
Posts: 213

All I can seem to think here is "what if this were my best friend, or husband, or Dad...". Mistake or not, there are people who loved this man very much, and I think it's rude and hugely uncaring to publicly air an opinion about how he died. And to call him a "jackass"?? No. There's a respectful, effective way and a proper time to discuss this so that others can learn from it. Ebert's method and timing were wrong, IMO.

daniellevmt's picture
Joined: 07/25/06
Posts: 213

"KimPossible" wrote:

Don't both show a lack of respect to the deceased though? I don't think its respectful just because its said in a less public setting.

I agree. I can't imagine calling anyone who has died a name like that, especially the day of.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780
RebeccaA'07's picture
Joined: 11/19/07
Posts: 1628

"daniellevmt" wrote:

All I can seem to think here is "what if this were my best friend, or husband, or Dad...". Mistake or not, there are people who loved this man very much, and I think it's rude and hugely uncaring to publicly air an opinion about how he died. And to call him a "jackass"?? No. There's a respectful, effective way and a proper time to discuss this so that others can learn from it. Ebert's method and timing were wrong, IMO.

I agree, Ebert ran his mouth far too quickly. Dunn had just passed away, give the family some time to grieve. Regardless of how he died, his family still deserves some respect. Of course there is a learning (b/c guranteed alcohol contributed, even if not legally drunk - I'm sure he was still showing off), but there is a time and place to do so.

Rivergallery's picture
Joined: 05/23/03
Posts: 1301

The driver was a self proclaimed Jackass, that was the name of his tv show. I think Ebert was being timely, whitty and it was a great tweet. It was NOT a demeaning word to the deceased nor his friends or family, untill they get upset with Ebert about it after he dies. Before he died they embrased and embodied the word..This was not your mother or son or any average person on the street this was a man that WAS ON A SHOW CALLED JACKASS!

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

I think it is OK to comment on the fact that he was drunk and that this is what can result from that, but there is a respectful way to do that. And I dont really mean respectful to the person who died, cause if he was drinking and driving, he really is an idiot IMO, but I think you need to be respectful to the family in these situations. So I really do think there is a difference between saying something disrespectful publicly versus privately. If it is out there where the family can see it, then it needs to be said in a way that shows respect for their grieving process, however, if it is being said by a nobody to people who dont know the person who died personally then I dont have a problem with the comment. It is all about context, and in this case the context was inappropriate IMO.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

If he had not died, but was just in an accident people would be all over it and if he was drunk would go to jail. The fact that he did not did not diminish the fact that it was not something that he should have done. The fact that he was known (Other than to me. Never heard of him before he died) is a great opportunity to get people talking about not drinking and driving. I know when Heath Ledger died it got my father to look at his prescriptions and realize some should not be taken together or taken with alcohol. There was benefit and purpose in people discussing his death. Now, was it respectful to joke about it? no. But I have never understood half of the jokes people say.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"ftmom" wrote:

I think it is OK to comment on the fact that he was drunk and that this is what can result from that, but there is a respectful way to do that. And I dont really mean respectful to the person who died, cause if he was drinking and driving, he really is an idiot IMO, but I think you need to be respectful to the family in these situations. So I really do think there is a difference between saying something disrespectful publicly versus privately. If it is out there where the family can see it, then it needs to be said in a way that shows respect for their grieving process, however, if it is being said by a nobody to people who dont know the person who died personally then I dont have a problem with the comment. It is all about context, and in this case the context was inappropriate IMO.

Well technically you just called him an idiot where it could be found. Not quite as visible as a tweet from Ebert, but it is now on the internet and not in a forum with any private security.

This is kind of what I mean about double standards.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

I think it's a good opportunity to talk about the real dangers of drinking and driving, but I do think that it's disrespectful to the families to sort of make light of it like that. While Ryan Dunn absolutely should not have been drinking and driving, his family and loved ones didn't do anything wrong, and they are the ones that are ultimately hurt by these kind of off the cuff remarks. And yes, I would feel that way even if Ryan Dunn was some random unknown guy. I don't think that the point is to try to make it seem like what he did wasn't wrong, but simply to try to have some respect for the pain that his loved ones are in by not rubbing salt in the wound. A better approach would be a much more serious conversation about the dangers of drinking and driving, kind of in his memory.

MissyJ's picture
Joined: 01/31/02
Posts: 3218

As pointed out, this was one of the reality stars from the show titled "Jackass".

While I believe that it definitely could have been worded in a more respectful manner, I think that it was Roger Ebert's intention to use the name "jackass" to reach out to Ryan Dunn's fan base of the show and get their attention to a very important topic. I respect that the toxicology reports are not back yet but the issue of posting the photo did grant the *appearance* of alcohol being a possible factor. The show/movies have as their largest target audience the teen/college age crowd... also the group with higher risks of having the attitude of invincibility esp. in regards to drinking/driving.

Ebert's comments were a blunt approach to perhaps shock and (purposefully) enrage Dunn's fans. Again, I get that it would be viewed as insensitive by the family but would we feel that way if say one of Dunn's friends or family were the ones that made that exact same comment? If I remember correctly, Ebert has a history of struggling with alcoholism. (I don't know if he has a history of DUI's under his belt or not... but if not, it is still possible that he is speaking from personal experience.)

If he waited until later, it is unlikely that as many people would have been searching for Ryan Dunn or "Jackass" terms. If his approach was "softer" - using a voice of persuasion or urging others to use it as an educational tool... would as many people be talking about the topic?

(*Disclaimer*: Again - this is not an approach that I would have chosen but I do recognize that Ebert's approach DID get the attention of far more of those teens/college age within my own world and got them to talk about it whereas they likely (reluctantly admitted) would have blown off hearing what they would deem "yet another lecture on the dangers of drinking and driving."

Joined: 04/12/03
Posts: 1686

Maybe it's just because I am in the LA area, but I remember when Nick Adenhart was killed, the media, et.al were very quick to judge the driver.

Perhaps Dunn's picture was taken mid-blink, but it didn't like it was soda in that cup.

I don't think the comment was too out of line. Like I said about Adenhardt, when it's the celebrity who is killed as a result of drunk driving, people are quick to judge. But when it's the other way around, people say it's too soon to judge?

ftmom's picture
Joined: 09/04/06
Posts: 1538

"KimPossible" wrote:

Well technically you just called him an idiot where it could be found. Not quite as visible as a tweet from Ebert, but it is now on the internet and not in a forum with any private security.

This is kind of what I mean about double standards.

I would disagree that this is a double standard. I am a nobody, and they would really have to be searching to find this post of mine. Ebert on the other hand is a well known personality and knowingly posted where he knew it would be seen by the family. There is a huge difference to me.

Singfourever's picture
Joined: 08/26/06
Posts: 306

"daniellevmt" wrote:

All I can seem to think here is "what if this were my best friend, or husband, or Dad...". Mistake or not, there are people who loved this man very much, and I think it's rude and hugely uncaring to publicly air an opinion about how he died. And to call him a "jackass"?? No. There's a respectful, effective way and a proper time to discuss this so that others can learn from it. Ebert's method and timing were wrong, IMO.

I'm with Dani on this one. I've been in the position of Dunn's family and friends. Except it was three people dead instead of two. It's a difficult position but it doesn't make the loss any less heartbreaking. Dunn might not deserve much respect here, but his loved ones do. They lost someone.

daniellevmt's picture
Joined: 07/25/06
Posts: 213

"Rivergallery" wrote:

The driver was a self proclaimed Jackass, that was the name of his tv show. I think Ebert was being timely, whitty and it was a great tweet. It was NOT a demeaning word to the deceased nor his friends or family, untill they get upset with Ebert about it after he dies. Before he died they embrased and embodied the word..This was not your mother or son or any average person on the street this was a man that WAS ON A SHOW CALLED JACKASS!

That was his JOB. This is real life. He died, for real, it's not make believe. To say that his family doesn't deserve respect because of what he did for a living is just...a horrible thing to say.

zefroim's picture
Joined: 05/18/06
Posts: 126

It was kind of insensitive of Ebert. But I don't see the big deal. It was on Twitter for farks sake. Not sure I can really take anything on Twitter seriously. Anyway Ebert is free to comment as he wishes. I don't think he "owes" anybody anything.

Joined: 05/31/06
Posts: 4780

Toxicology reports came back over twice the legal limit (.08 here) and his speed at the time of the crash was estimated to be 140 MPH.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/06/22/‘jackass’-star-drunk-at-time-of-deadly-crash/

I wonder how this news will impact how people felt about Ebert's tweet.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

It doesn't change the way I feel about it. I still think that it was insensitive to Ryan Dunn's loved ones to kind of make light of it like that. Ultimately, they are the ones that are going to be hurt by insensitve comments, not Ryan Dunn. I can picture how bad I would feel if that was my friend or my brother that did that - knowing that he did it to himself by driving drunk would only make it that much more painful to me. And then to have some jerk making "witty" comments about it - blerg.

RebeccaA'07's picture
Joined: 11/19/07
Posts: 1628

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

It doesn't change the way I feel about it. I still think that it was insensitive to Ryan Dunn's loved ones to kind of make light of it like that. Ultimately, they are the ones that are going to be hurt by insensitve comments, not Ryan Dunn. I can picture how bad I would feel if that was my friend or my brother that did that - knowing that he did it to himself by driving drunk would only make it that much more painful to me. And then to have some jerk making "witty" comments about it - blerg.

Exactly. Obviously Ebert was feeling the pressure because he retracted his message. He made insensitve remarks far too quickly. Drinking & Driving is a SERIOUS issue, but to make fun of someone's life so quickly is gross.

Joined: 06/04/07
Posts: 1368

"MissyJ" wrote:

As pointed out, this was one of the reality stars from the show titled "Jackass".

While I believe that it definitely could have been worded in a more respectful manner, I think that it was Roger Ebert's intention to use the name "jackass" to reach out to Ryan Dunn's fan base of the show and get their attention to a very important topic. I respect that the toxicology reports are not back yet but the issue of posting the photo did grant the *appearance* of alcohol being a possible factor. The show/movies have as their largest target audience the teen/college age crowd... also the group with higher risks of having the attitude of invincibility esp. in regards to drinking/driving.

Ebert's comments were a blunt approach to perhaps shock and (purposefully) enrage Dunn's fans. Again, I get that it would be viewed as insensitive by the family but would we feel that way if say one of Dunn's friends or family were the ones that made that exact same comment? If I remember correctly, Ebert has a history of struggling with alcoholism. (I don't know if he has a history of DUI's under his belt or not... but if not, it is still possible that he is speaking from personal experience.)

If he waited until later, it is unlikely that as many people would have been searching for Ryan Dunn or "Jackass" terms. If his approach was "softer" - using a voice of persuasion or urging others to use it as an educational tool... would as many people be talking about the topic?

(*Disclaimer*: Again - this is not an approach that I would have chosen but I do recognize that Ebert's approach DID get the attention of far more of those teens/college age within my own world and got them to talk about it whereas they likely (reluctantly admitted) would have blown off hearing what they would deem "yet another lecture on the dangers of drinking and driving."

ITA with this, especially after the toxicology report came back and knowing the speed in which he was driving. I hope this is a huge wake up call for those that think it's really not a big deal to drink and drive or think they can handle or get away with it.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"ftmom" wrote:

I would disagree that this is a double standard. I am a nobody, and they would really have to be searching to find this post of mine. Ebert on the other hand is a well known personality and knowingly posted where he knew it would be seen by the family. There is a huge difference to me.

So you feel its ok and not disrespectful to the deceased to call them names as long as their friends and family don't see it.

daniellevmt's picture
Joined: 07/25/06
Posts: 213

There was no doubt in my mind his report would come back showing that he was completely wasted. Doesn't change my opinion at ALL. He still died, I still think people who make judgmental smartass comments in the press are mean, uncaring people. Let his family and friends grieve in peace, FFS.

Starryblue702's picture
Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5454

Well, the preliminary autopsy reports were released this morning and he was 2x over the legal limit (which I wasn't at all surprised at). Does what Roger Ebert said shock me? No. Was it innapropriate? Probably. I do know that if he had tit and killed an innocent by-stander I would probably be saying the same thing. And I don't count the passenger in his car, because he was stupid enough to get in with Ryan Dunn knowing that he was obviously wasted.