Sagging Pants = Indecent Exposure?
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Thread: Sagging Pants = Indecent Exposure?

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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Default Sagging Pants = Indecent Exposure?

    http://articles.sfgate.com/2011-06-1...ecent-exposure

    SAN FRANCISCO -- A dispute that began after a passenger refused to pull up his sagging pants led to his arrest and removal from a plane at San Francisco International Airport on Wednesday, police said.

    Deshon Marman, 20, a University of New Mexico football player who was in the city to attend the funeral of a close friend, former Lincoln High School standout David Henderson, was being held at San Mateo County Jail on suspicion of trespassing, battery and resisting arrest.

    Marman grew up a block from Henderson in the Bayview neighborhood, and the two were teammates at Lincoln High School and City College of San Francisco before they transferred to separate four-year universities. Henderson was shot May 26 on Kirkwood Avenue and died 11 days later.

    On Wednesday, San Francisco police got a call about 9 a.m. that someone was exposing himself outside a US Airways gate, Sgt. Michael Rodriguez said.

    An airline employee spotted Marman before he boarded Flight 488, bound for Albuquerque, and complained that Marman's pants "were below his buttocks but above the knees, and that much of his boxer shorts were exposed," Rodriguez said.

    The employee asked Marman to pull up his pants before he boarded the plane, but he refused, Rodriguez said. Marman allegedly repeated his refusal after taking his seat on the plane.

    "At that point he was asked to leave the plane," Rodriguez said. "It took 15 to 20 minutes of talking to get him to leave the plane, and he was arrested for trespassing." Marman allegedly resisted officers as he was being led away.

    Marman's mother, Donna Doyle, said he was still in an emotionally raw state after attending Henderson's funeral Tuesday, where he spoke of his intention to honor his friend's memory by making it to the NFL.

    Doyle said she had encouraged her son to leave soon after the funeral.

    "I didn't want him to stay here in the city because of what happened to David," Doyle said. "A lot of it is jealousy. These kids are trying to make it, they're going off to college and other people get jealous."

    She added that her son was targeted at the airport "because of the way he looks - young black man with dreads and baggy pants. But he's a good kid trying to make it, and he's going through a lot. And then this happens."

    Valerie Wunder, a spokeswoman for US Airways, said the airline's dress code forbids "indecent exposure or inappropriate" attire.

    Marman was being held on $11,000 bail.
    I realize that he was actually arrested for refusing to leave the plane and resisting arrest. My question is, should they have asked him to leave the plane in the first place? Do you consider exposed boxer shorts to be "indecent exposure?"
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    To answer my own question, no I think that's very very silly. I realize that some people are really annoyed by seeing someone's underwear, but I maintain that seeing a cloth covered behind is not indecent exposure. Boxer shorts are exactly that - still shorts. I maintain that if you can't see skin, it's not indecent exposure, and that it was ridiculous for the airline to ask him to pull up his pants and/or ask him to leave over it.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Posting Addict Starryblue702's Avatar
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    I think that he should have just complied to avoid getting arrested for something stupid, but I can see his point of view. I think that he was just standing up for something that he believed in, or in his case, a fashion statement that he was trying to make. Come on, tons of women wear EXTREMELY low cut shirts to show off the "goods" and a lot of women and teens wear shorts that their butts literally hang out of, and I can guarantee no one would have said anything to them about their appearances... especially if they were hot! Unless he was exposing himself, it should have been left alone... period.
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    Posting Addict RebeccaA'07's Avatar
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    So it would be OK for a woman to let her thong or panties show completely like this guy was letting his boxers? No, it wouldn't. He was asked by personnel to pull up his pants, instead of resisting...he should have followed direction. I really doubt that they targeted him because he was a "young black man" like the Mother said in the article; I would hope they'd do the same to any person showing their underwear.

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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    But the difference is that if a woman were showing her thong panties, you should be seeing a lot of bare skin. Boxer shorts are underwear, sure, but that is just the cultural meaning that we attach to them. They are still shorts, and still offer full coverage of a person's nether regions.

    When I was in middle school, it was actually fashionable for young women to wear boxer shorts as regular shorts, so I have actually been out in public wearing boxer shorts with no pants on top at all. If you saw a young lady wearing boxer shorts style shorts and a t shirt with no pants on top, would you call that indecent and expect her to go change before she could board an airplane? I wouldn't. So I can't imagine how wearing boxer shorts with pants on top is any more indecent.

    ETA: Imagine a 12 year old girl in an airport dressed like this: http://www.overstock.com/Clothing-Sh...tml?cid=123620

    Indecent? No? So why would it be more indecent if it were a man wearing that PLUS a pair of pants?
    Last edited by Alissa_Sal; 06-24-2011 at 05:23 PM.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    The question isn't whether boxer shorts are "indecent exposure" or whether the request was appropriate, but whether Mr. Marmon's response to the request was appropriate. It was not, and he absolutely should not have been allowed on that plane if he wouldn't follow crew instructions. Sometimes in an airport the requested action isn't so much to get the requested result as it is to ensure that that person will follow directions/instructions when on the plane. Better to deal with a biligerent irate person on land than at 30K feet. A recent example: I was flying with bags of frozen breastmilk, still frozen completely solid, which I declared before my bag went through the scanner. Per FAA regulations frozen items are not required to be screened for explosives, but I was asked to step aside & have them screened. I could have, maybe should have, refused because the request was clearly outside of FAA requirements, but I did it anyway. And I flew home without interruption.

    ETA: did you guys see this? A businessman flies around the country in women's underwear (so does Lady Gaga) because it's fun & breaks up the boredom of long flights & airport waits. I'm sure it's a conversation starter, for sure! And he says whenever crew asks him to cover up, he does, which is why we never heard about him before now. I'm also pretty certain it reduces the need for pat-downs, LOL!
    Last edited by Spacers; 06-24-2011 at 05:47 PM.
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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    I disagree. I think it's ridiculous to think that people should submit to any request, however unreasonable, or else be kicked off a plane. If he actually were wearing something inappropriate, or behaving in a way that was dangerous or upsetting to the crew and other passengers, then I would agree that they had every right to ask him to change or else risk being booted off the plane. But that's not what happened. He was wearing a commonly seen fashion that does not reveal any more skin or anything more indecent than you would see on any other pair of shorts, and they asked him to change because someone just didn't like it. Unreasonable. If I show up wearing my favorite dress (which does not show much skin or is not super tight) and the stewardess asks me to change it simply because she doesn't like the pattern, am I obligated to change it or get kicked off the plane? Absolutely not - that's crazy.
    -Alissa, mom to Tristan (5) and Reid (the baby!)

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    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starryblue702 View Post
    I think that he should have just complied to avoid getting arrested for something stupid, but I can see his point of view. I think that he was just standing up for something that he believed in, or in his case, a fashion statement that he was trying to make. Come on, tons of women wear EXTREMELY low cut shirts to show off the "goods" and a lot of women and teens wear shorts that their butts literally hang out of, and I can guarantee no one would have said anything to them about their appearances... especially if they were hot! Unless he was exposing himself, it should have been left alone... period.
    If I remember correctly a woman got the boot from a Southwest flight a few years ago for wearing something too revealing for the airline's liking. I think she was wearing a very short skirt or something.
    Lisa


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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire'sMommy View Post
    If I remember correctly a woman got the boot from a Southwest flight a few years ago for wearing something too revealing for the airline's liking. I think she was wearing a very short skirt or something.
    I remember that as well.

    ~Bonita~

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    Posting Addict Spacers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    He was wearing a commonly seen fashion that does not reveal any more skin or anything more indecent than you would see on any other pair of shorts, and they asked him to change because someone just didn't like it. Unreasonable. If I show up wearing my favorite dress (which does not show much skin or is not super tight) and the stewardess asks me to change it simply because she doesn't like the pattern, am I obligated to change it or get kicked off the plane? Absolutely not - that's crazy.
    It's an airport runway, not a fashion runway. He was wearing a fashion commonly seen among gangsters and thugs and other people who often refuse to do what they are told. I think the ground crew was right to make sure that he wasn't one of them, with a simple request to pull up his pants. Gang members & hoodlums are allowed to fly -- if they can show a reasonable amount of respect for the authority of the flight crew. If someone just doesn't like the orange & purple plaid of your dress, you're right, being asked to remove it would be no good. If, however, your dress features a pattern notorious among local gang members, then a request to put on a sweater might be a reasonable request. It's a quick & easy way to distinguish a troublemaker, not by the clothing but by the response.
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