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Thread: Shoplifter Shot and Killed

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriaInTX View Post
    No they don't. They can wear their city uniform, they can even check out a city radio if they want to. They do have to notify the city of every off duty job they do. Dallas police officers have to buy half their own equipment anyway, because what the city issues isn't very good quality so if they want the good stuff they have to buy it themselves.
    I was basing it on this:
    Sec.*411.0078.**USE OF UNIFORM WHILE PERFORMING CERTAIN OFF-DUTY ACTIVITIES. (a) An officer commissioned by the department may purchase from the department at fair market value a uniform to be used by the officer while providing law enforcement services for a person or entity other than the department. If an officer who purchased a uniform under this subsection leaves the service of the department for any reason, the officer shall return the uniform to the department. The department shall pay the officer the fair market value of the uniform at the time it is returned. For purposes of this subsection:
    (1)**a uniform does not include a handgun or other weapon; and
    (2)**the fair market value of a uniform is determined by the department.
    (b)**An officer wearing a uniform purchased under Subsection (a) may not act in a manner that adversely affects the operations or reputation of the department.
    (c)**The department shall adopt reasonable guidelines regarding:
    (1)**the types of law enforcement services for which an officer may purchase and wear a uniform under Subsection (a) and the circumstances under which the officer may perform those services; and
    (2)**the standards of behavior to be maintained by an officer who wears a uniform purchased under Subsection (a).

  2. #162
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    As I understand it, people are arguing that he shot the gun because he thought he was in the process of being run over. Like, she was pulling out, and he shot the gun to get her to stop lest he be run over. Right? Except that, he shot the passenger, so obviously, that gun shot did nothing to stop the driver. Now Gloria is arguing that by shooting the passenger, he caused the driver to slow or stop long enough for him to get out of the car's way, which is why he didn't get hurt. I'm saying that is speculation, and further more, if you were shooting at me, I wouldn't stop or slow, I would speed up to get the hell out of your line of fire. So my thought is, since he didn't get hurt, and since shooting the passenger wouldn't have stopped the car on it's own, and since we can only speculate about whether shooting into the car made the driver speed up or slow down, it seems to me that he may have thought he was in danger, but he may not have actually been in that much danger after all. Otherwise, how else does it come to pass that he ended up shooting someone other than the driver and still ends up perfectly fine and un-run over? Do you really think the driver slowed down once he started shooting? Would you?
    All that is required for a police officer to fire is weapon is for him to think that his life is in danger. All the other things don't really matter. He had a reasonable fear that his life was in danger. He had a reasonable expectation that as a police officer if he tells someone to stop that they stop. He could not reasonably forsee that she would try and run him over. You can speculate the what IFs all day but those are the facts, and that is the reason he will not be charged with anything and will be cleared in this shooting.
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  3. #163
    Posting Addict GloriaInTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    I was basing it on this:
    I think you are confusing that they can do it with if it is required.

    Sec.*411.0078.**USE OF UNIFORM WHILE PERFORMING CERTAIN OFF-DUTY ACTIVITIES. (a) An officer commissioned by the department may purchase from the department at fair market value a uniform to be used by the officer while providing law enforcement services for a person or entity other than the department. If an officer who purchased a uniform under this subsection leaves the service of the department for any reason, the officer shall return the uniform to the department. The department shall pay the officer the fair market value of the uniform at the time it is returned. For purposes of this subsection:
    (1)**a uniform does not include a handgun or other weapon; and
    (2)**the fair market value of a uniform is determined by the department.
    (b)**An officer wearing a uniform purchased under Subsection (a) may not act in a manner that adversely affects the operations or reputation of the department.
    (c)**The department shall adopt reasonable guidelines regarding:
    (1)**the types of law enforcement services for which an officer may purchase and wear a uniform under Subsection (a) and the circumstances under which the officer may perform those services; and
    (2)**the standards of behavior to be maintained by an officer who wears a uniform purchased under Subsection (a).
    Mom to Lee, Jake, Brandon, Rocco
    Stepmom to Ryan, Regan, Braden, Baley
    Granddaughters Kylie 10/18/2010 & Aleya 4/22/2013


    I never consider a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosopy, as a cause for withdrawing from a friend. --Thomas Jefferson

  4. #164
    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Wait, what? So if I break the law I'm putting my LIFE at risk?

    I sure as hell hope I don't live in a country where a cop will shoot me over thinking I stole some gummy worms, smoked a little pot, carved my initials into wet cement, or disturbed the peace by playing my music too loud.

    In this country there is a process we are supposed to follow for breaking the law. It doesn't begin with "Well, you commited a crime; I thought my life was in danger so I killed you."

    What's going to happen when we get it wrong? Is it enough that I mistakenly think the meter reader is someone trying to break in and shoot him?
    He did follow the law.

    He tried to stop them in the building, they assaulted him with there purses.

    He was clearly in uniform and identified himself as a police officer. He told them to stop several times.

    They tried to run him over with there car, which fyi is considered a deadly weapon in the eyes of the law.

    I think the BIG thing missing here, she was on probation already from stealing from a Walmart already. She was BANNED from going into ANY Walmart till her probation was over. I'm pretty sure that like Casino's do...Walmart has pictures and such of people who are banned from there stores in the loss prevention office.

  5. #165
    Posting Addict ClairesMommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    Wait, what? So if I break the law I'm putting my LIFE at risk?

    I sure as hell hope I don't live in a country where a cop will shoot me over thinking I stole some gummy worms, smoked a little pot, carved my initials into wet cement, or disturbed the peace by playing my music too loud.

    In this country there is a process we are supposed to follow for breaking the law. It doesn't begin with "Well, you commited a crime; I thought my life was in danger so I killed you."

    What's going to happen when we get it wrong? Is it enough that I mistakenly think the meter reader is someone trying to break in and shoot him?
    Well said. ALL OF US have broken laws. Everyone. For each one that we break, should one of the consequences be death?

  6. #166
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potter75 View Post
    Have you been reading my posts? I've stated several times that this was over merchandise with unarmed women and children in a car. I've stated specifically that they were not trying to speed away with a stolen child in mortal danger. Even then, were it my CHILD in the car, I would not want an officer shooting at the car willy nilly ~ it could have just as easily been my kid he hit in the neck instead of the passenger. I'd want support called in. I want people safe first.

    As to gang lords and whatnot, I don't know, I'm not getting into make believe situations, I'm not a police officer and I'm not going to extrapolate out fake situations all day long. I don't think that anyone should be shooting at unarmed shoplifters. Ever.

    I'm not sure where the lack of understanding lies, I apologize if I'm not being clear. I care about laws a lot. I follow all of the laws, I think. I teach my kids to obey the law. I simply think that humans are more important than some t shirts. I think that Shelly Frey was more important to her two daughters than a package of meat (that is what she stole from Walmart before). Her name was Shelly, she had two little girls, 2 and 7. I don't see her as just some criminal who deserved to be shot down. I see her as a human. I think that Shelly broke the law and deserved to be punished for it. And she would have been caught. She paid for her goods, she was on tape, she had been caught before, she would have been caught again. She probably would have gotten probation again, maybe a weekend in jail? And thats all okay with me. Heck, give her a week for resisting arrest.

    But death without a trial for being in the passenger seat? Nah. Not fair. Not the kind of society I want to live in. I value my life more than that. I even value Shelly's life more than that.
    Her children may have thought she was more important but she didn't think they were.
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  7. #167
    Posting Addict Rivergallery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClairesMommy View Post
    Well said. ALL OF US have broken laws. Everyone. For each one that we break, should one of the consequences be death?
    But, if I am caught speeding 5mph over the speed limit and the car comes after me, should I run and then risk me and my children being shot and killed? Or should I pull over apologize and take the ticket? Or pull over and then argue and fight the officer, and drive away? Getting killed for going 5mph over the speed limit, like getting killed for stealing even petty items is not the fault of the police officer, it is the natural consequence of breaking the law. YES resisting arrest should be punishable by risking your own life, regardless of WHY you are being told to stop, pull over, or arrested. THE PERP, circumvented the LAW not the police officer. If they had stopped and did what the PO said there wouldn't have been an issue, whether guilty or not.
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  8. #168
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    They were not her children in the car. Again, the punishment for shoplifting is not death without a trial here in America.

  9. #169
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    She made it the punishment by risking her life. She circumvented the rights to a trial by running.
    DH-Aug 30th 1997 Josiah - 6/3/02 Isaac 7/31/03

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    She made it the punishment by risking her life. She circumvented the rights to a trial by running.
    Sorry, show me where the law states trial by jury is waived by running from the police and punishable by death?

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