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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Fleeing or speeding away from police they should be able to shoot them. If an officer tells you to stop... stop.
    Yep. They should have shot OJ and his friend. And the deaf if they aren't aware they are being asked to stop (while "fleeing" on foot).

    An off-duty sheriff's deputy was in the employment of Walmart that night as a member of the loss prevention team
    He was NOT acting as a cop at that time. He would not have been in his uniform and as far as the theives knew, he wasn't a cop. He was employed by Walmart and probably was outside the rules and procedures per Walmart's policies.
    Last edited by ethanwinfield; 12-10-2012 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #12
    Mega Poster mom3girls's Avatar
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    I am thinking there might be something missing from this story? Was the man still trying to get her from the car when she sped away? Were her young kids left in the car while she went in to go steal stuff? (not that makes it okay to shoot her but it does speak more to what kind of person she was)
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivergallery View Post
    Fleeing or speeding away from police they should be able to shoot them. If an officer tells you to stop... stop.
    Seriously?!? Running away is enough to warrant being shot and possibly dying? I just can't even wrap my head around that.

    I remember a story about my 14 year old brother running from the police when they busted a party that he was attending. All of the high school kids scattered because there was underage drinking going on. He got caught and brought home in a police car. I'm sure glad they didn't shoot him and bring him home in a body bag.

    Jeez Louise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    He was NOT acting as a cop at that time. He would not have been in his uniform and as far as the theives knew, he wasn't a cop. He was employed by Walmart and probably was outside the rules and procedures per Walmart's policies.
    Yeah, I can't imagine Wal-Mart's policy for their shoplifters is "shoot them." A friend of mine worked in security at Best Buy and he told us that they had a policy that if someone got out the doors with shoplifted merchandise, they were not under any circumstances to chase them because it was considered too dangerous and a liability if they were to get into a car accident fleeing the scene. They were just supposed to take down the license plate if they could and call the police. Of course I don't know what Wal-Mart's policy is, but I somehow doubt it's "try to wrestle them out of their cars, and if you can't, shoot them in the neck."
    boilermaker and Jessica80 like this.
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    Community Host Sapphire Sunsets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smsturner View Post
    In Arizona, just being brownish is considered something that the police officers can stop you for. MOST police officers are fabulous people, out to help everyone. But they are not always lily-white out to help everyone. There are tons of things we hear about police officers that should make most people fear them. Shall I find a few links for you?


    And as for being in danger because someone had intent to hurt them. With a PURSE. That is just nuts. Talk about stretching it. The next time I see a woman smack someone with her purse, I'll make sure to duck for the bullets. Since it's totally rational. :eyeroll:
    There is no way a trained veteran of the police department seriously thought he was in mortal danger because a woman smacked him with a purse. The high speed chase argument doesn't even make sense, because this wasn't even bad enough for a high speed chase. Like I said, they obviously could see her license plate. Just find her. Arrest her. And btw, add child endangerment since she took her kids to a robbery.

    From the story, just in case you missed it. :eyeroll: right back at ya! Thats what MY answer was based on.

    "one used their purse full of stolen merchandise as a weapon, wielding it like a mace, striking the deputy"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Seriously?!? Running away is enough to warrant being shot and possibly dying? I just can't even wrap my head around that.

    I remember a story about my 14 year old brother running from the police when they busted a party that he was attending. All of the high school kids scattered because there was underage drinking going on. He got caught and brought home in a police car. I'm sure glad they didn't shoot him and bring him home in a body bag.

    Jeez Louise.

    When you use a purse as a weapon and try to hurt a police officer, yes. It doesn't matter that he wasn't in uniform at the time. He is still a cop off duty or not.
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    Community Host Alissa_Sal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Sunsets View Post
    When you use a purse as a weapon and try to hurt a police officer, yes. It doesn't matter that he wasn't in uniform at the time. He is still a cop off duty or not.
    Maybe if he had shot her during the struggle in which she hit him with her purse. Maybe. Even then, I have to question if hitting someone with a purse justifies using deadly force in return. Isn't there something that says that you have to use the appropriate amount of force to protect yourself? But anyway, he could possibly argue self defense in that case. But it's not like she was smacking him with her purse, they were struggling and tussling, and that's when he shot her. After she hit him with her purse, she ran away, he gave chase, and then once they were already in their car, that's when he shot her. There is no way to call that self defense.

    To give another example, if hit you with my umbrella, and then you went and got a gun and shot me 2 minutes later, do you really think you could claim self defense or that you felt your life was in danger and you had to use deadly force against me? I seriously doubt you'd get away with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Sunsets View Post
    When you use a purse as a weapon and try to hurt a police officer, yes. It doesn't matter that he wasn't in uniform at the time. He is still a cop off duty or not.
    It DOES matter.

    He was not in uniform nor in the scope of his employment as an officer. If he told me to stop at the exit, no, I'm going to keep walking. I'm not refusing to obey a lawful order given by a peace officer; I'm refusing to stop for a Walmart employee.

    If an off-duty cop tried to pull my car over for a traffic violation or because the car was reported stolen or whatever, I am not going to pull over for him. Period. In fact, even if I'm being pulled over by a "cop" in a "police car" and it looks suspicious to me, I'm not pulling over. I'll be on my phone calling 911 to report it or verify it's legit.

    She didn't assault a cop; the person she assaulted turned out to be a cop. There's a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alissa_Sal View Post
    Maybe if he had shot her during the struggle in which she hit him with her purse. Maybe. Even then, I have to question if hitting someone with a purse justifies using deadly force in return. Isn't there something that says that you have to use the appropriate amount of force to protect yourself? But anyway, he could possibly argue self defense in that case. But it's not like she was smacking him with her purse, they were struggling and tussling, and that's when he shot her. After she hit him with her purse, she ran away, he gave chase, and then once they were already in their car, that's when he shot her. There is no way to call that self defense.

    To give another example, if hit you with my umbrella, and then you went and got a gun and shot me 2 minutes later, do you really think you could claim self defense or that you felt your life was in danger and you had to use deadly force against me? I seriously doubt you'd get away with it.
    Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around this one...if a person broke into my home, hit me in the head, then fled, and I shot him as he was driving away, I don't think the self-defense argument would convince a jury. He's no longer a threat to me or my family. I can get his license plate number and call 911 instead.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethanwinfield View Post
    It DOES matter.

    He was not in uniform nor in the scope of his employment as an officer. If he told me to stop at the exit, no, I'm going to keep walking. I'm not refusing to obey a lawful order given by a peace officer; I'm refusing to stop for a Walmart employee.

    If an off-duty cop tried to pull my car over for a traffic violation or because the car was reported stolen or whatever, I am not going to pull over for him. Period. In fact, even if I'm being pulled over by a "cop" in a "police car" and it looks suspicious to me, I'm not pulling over. I'll be on my phone calling 911 to report it or verify it's legit.

    She didn't assault a cop; the person she assaulted turned out to be a cop. There's a difference.

    No, he is a cop...just off duty. Oh, and i found this.

    The Rights and Responsibilities of an Off-Duty Police Officer | eHow.com

    Officers in most jurisdictions, even when off-duty, are expected to be armed and to exercise their authority when necessary
    An off-duty officer should only use powers of arrest when there is an immediate need to prevent a crime or apprehend a suspect -- and the officer has in his possession appropriate police identification. The officer must not be personally involved in the incident. The officer shall not use their police powers to resolve personal grievances, except under circumstances that would justify the use of self-defense, actions to prevent injury to another person, or when a serious offense has been committed that would justify an arrest.

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