Shutdown

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AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
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Shutdown

Because everyone else is talking about it...

Who is at fault? What will it take to get things back up and running? Will you personally be effected?

There are a ton of articles to choose from at every news website.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"You don't get to extract a ransom for doing your job, for doing what you're supposed to be doing anyway, or just because there's a law there that you don't like,"

Quote from Obama.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I get that Tea Partiers don't want Obamacare. This is the wrong way to address that issue.

FTR, i am expressing this calmly when in reality it makes me all sorts of ragey.

KimPossible's picture
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Romulans

GloriaInTX's picture
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Obama has already given all employers with over 50 employees and one year delay to Obamacare. I don't see why he won't extend that same consideration to all the normal every day individuals who are going to be hurt trying to pay these massive increases in coverage. Why are big corporations getting special treatment?

Even Congress has carved out a niche for themselves by getting special subsidies to pay for Obamacare that no one else gets.

Senator David Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, has demanded a floor vote on his bill to end an exemption that members of Congress and their staffs are slated to get that will make them the only participants in the new Obamacare exchanges to receive generous subsidies from their employer to pay for their health insurance. Angry Senate Democrats have drafted legislation that dredges up a 2007 prostitution scandal involving Vitter. The confrontation is a perfect illustration of just how wide the gulf in attitudes is between the Beltway and the rest of the country ? and how viciously Capitol Hill denizens will fight for their privileges.

Congress

Plus the site is not even ready. I heard on the radio this morning that the most frequently asked question at the Obamacare government website is "How can I get a personal exemption?"
ObamaCare

KimPossible's picture
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Regardless of your wondering why Obama does or doesnt' want to do something to the healtcare act

Why is it okay for the GOP to try to force govt. shutdown, withholding paychecks from hundreds of thousands of workers, unless Obamacare supporters comply.

It truly miffs me that anyone condones this or thinks this is EVER an appropriate way to get what you want.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

Regardless of your wondering why Obama does or doesnt' want to do something to the healtcare act

Why is it okay for the GOP to try to force govt. shutdown, withholding paychecks from hundreds of thousands of workers, unless Obamacare supporters comply.

It truly miffs me that anyone condones this or thinks this is EVER an appropriate way to get what you want.

They are NOT forcing the government to shut down. They have funded EVERYTHING ELSE. It is Reid and Obama that are shutting down the government by refusing to pass the bills they are being sent because they won't delay Obamacare.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

Quote from Obama.

That pretty much sums it up for me. I get that Tea Partiers don't want Obamacare. This is the wrong way to address that issue.

FTR, i am expressing this calmly when in reality it makes me all sorts of ragey.

This. The insurance pools only work if we're all in which is why they can't delay the individual mandate but keep the rest of it. Everyone has to be paying in, otherwise they can't support the people that are currently sick and whatnot. I'm going to be generous and assume that the Congresscritters understand this, but just don't want Obamacare to work because OH NOES OBAMA. Otherwise, if they don't know that then they don't understand how insurance pools work and they should be quiet now because the adults are talking.

That's literally as civil as I can be on the subject.

KimPossible's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

They are NOT forcing the government to shut down. They have funded EVERYTHING ELSE. It is Reid and Obama that are shutting down the government by refusing to pass the bills they are being sent because they won't delay Obamacare.

What are you talking about...even Boehner states this is a healthcare issue?!?!

I think it would be a sin to bend to the house's terms to pass this as it just validates such atrocious tactics.

like i want a shutdown at every opportunity for one everytime some party doesn't get what they want. No thanks.

They are undeniably using this shutdown to try to force through changes to obamacare.

CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Really its embarrassing to me that anyone...government official or citizen thinks this is a civilized way to run a government. I really don't have anything more to say on this issue. My opinion on it is plain and simple...and unwavering.

ETA: Because i can't spell.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

Really its embarrassing to me that anyone...government official or citizen thinks this is a civilized way to run a government. I really don't have anything more to say on this issue. My opinion on it is plain and simple...and unwavering.

Right... civilized like pushing thru Obamacare in the first place on a technicality without ONE Republican vote.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

They are NOT forcing the government to shut down. They have funded EVERYTHING ELSE. It is Reid and Obama that are shutting down the government by refusing to pass the bills they are being sent because they won't delay Obamacare.

No. Just no. They can't present a solution that is not going to work (delay the mandate - this won't work) and then blame the Senate for refusing to agree to a non-working solution. And then in the process, hold the entire government hostage because they aren't getting their way about a law that was passed in 2010, and ruled Constitutional in 2012. Also, their side ran on "we will repeal Obamacare" in the presidential election and they lost. The majority of people voted for Obama and his care. So get over it. Seriously. Stop acting like a bunch of spoiled children and get over it.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Right... civilized like pushing thru Obamacare in the first place on a technicality without ONE Republican vote.

Yeah, if you needed any proof that this isn't even about the merit of the law and is entirely personal for Republicans and was an entirely partisan vote.......

KimPossible's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Right... civilized like pushing thru Obamacare in the first place on a technicality without ONE Republican vote.

Deflection. I don't want to go and rehash another debate we did ages ago (even though we do it all the time). I could and have plenty to say about that. But I won't bite. I am talking about what is happening right now. Is it appropriate/ethical or not?

Its not.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

Deflection. I don't want to go and rehash another debate we did ages ago (even though we do it all the time). I could and have plenty to say about that. But I won't bite. I am talking about what is happening right now. Is it appropriate/ethical or not?

Its not.

Sorry but it is relevant. Since it is the same program! Just more of the same. It is somehow ok for the Democrats to run something through when they have majority but it is different when Repulicans have even a small majority to try and correct the problem that they started. It is just as ethical for them to do it as it was for the Democrats to do it in the first place.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Sorry but it is relevant. Since it is the same program!

THIS SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE PROGRAM AT ALL

thats the whole point!

Getting ragey again. Need a time out

KimPossible's picture
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Ferengi

Good gravy good think they are a lot of alien species...this bug is back with a vengeance!

GloriaInTX's picture
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"KimPossible" wrote:

THIS SHOULD NOT BE ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE PROGRAM AT ALL

thats the whole point!

Getting ragey again. Need a time out

Right. I'm not sure why a budget PAYING FOR OBAMACARE shouldn't be about Obamacare.

GloriaInTX's picture
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Alissa_Sal's picture
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I just wanted to mention that the main part of the law (the individual mandate) that we're all arguing about and the government got shut down over has a $95 fine. In other words, if you don't get the insurance, the only thing that happens is that you have to pay a fine of $95 per year. Also, people who can't find affordable insurance policies (granted, affordable as defined by the government) are exempt. So to recap, the Republicans/Tea Partiers shut down the government over a possible $95 per year fine that wouldn't apply to people who can't find affordable policies anyway. True story.

KimPossible's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Right. I'm not sure why a budget PAYING FOR OBAMACARE shouldn't be about Obamacare.

This is not some special "Obamacare specific budget passing"

Its the passing of the budget.

I get it. You think the tea party should be able to bully their way on this ONE specific issue by tying these changes to the budget so that they can hang the paychecks of hundreds of thousands of workers over the senate's head to force them to comply. Thats obviously what budget passing is for. To use these people's livings as a tool. Cool.

ClairesMommy's picture
Joined: 08/15/06
Posts: 2299

I read this earlier today:

"Texas Senator Ted Cruz began a filibuster on the Senate floor. He's trying to stop Obamacare and he vowed to keep speaking until he is no longer able to stand. And the good news: If he collapses from exhaustion he'll be covered under Obamacare." ?Jay Leno

Gotta thank Republican "Redmapping" for this debacle. You have a popular vote that is in no way represented by the house. How effed up is that? Yeah, Dems do it too, but nowhere near to the extent that the Reps do. Redrawing voting lines....Love it (not).

Spacers's picture
Joined: 12/29/03
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Kim & Alissa are doing a much better job of controlling their rage than I am. I've started writing a few things and had to delete them all because I'm just so ****ing pissed off with Republicans and TPers (better word for them IMHO and also exactly what I'd like to use them for) for putting us in this mess. Over $95 a year for people who don't want to buy insurance, which everyone *should* have anyway. ****ing bunch of nutjobs.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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Wow. I was only gone for a few hours and there are already 3 pages.

I am frustrated with both sides. Neither side is willing to sit down work it out and move on. I do believe the Administration is not without guilt in this, and neither are the Republicans.

Two of my BIL's and one of my friends husband are furlowed today because of this situation. Two of them are not in a situation where they can just go without getting paid. It will really hurt all of them. I can not imagine the families that are on WIC and depend on it for formula for their babies.

In my mind I am thinking of two siblings looking at eachother with disgust and hatred. Both needing to learn to get along and live together but neither one willing to budge an inch. You would think, the President would be like a parent in the situation and come and have everyone sit down and work it out, but that is not happening either.

mom3girls's picture
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I am angry about the shut down too, but I can be angry with the republicans. The majority of Americans do not want the ACA to be law, the republicans are doing what their constituency wants. I think there is a lot of politics playing into this as well, but that is on both sides

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I just wanted to mention that the main part of the law (the individual mandate) that we're all arguing about and the government got shut down over has a $95 fine. In other words, if you don't get the insurance, the only thing that happens is that you have to pay a fine of $95 per year. Also, people who can't find affordable insurance policies (granted, affordable as defined by the government) are exempt. So to recap, the Republicans/Tea Partiers shut down the government over a possible $95 per year fine that wouldn't apply to people who can't find affordable policies anyway. True story.

Right. It is all about the people who don't want to buy insurance and had nothing to do with the thousands of people with premiums that are doubling or tripling in cost for less coverage because they want to keep their coverage like Obama promised and don't want to be forced onto the exchanges.

GloriaInTX's picture
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"mom3girls" wrote:

I am angry about the shut down too, but I can be angry with the republicans. The majority of Americans do not want the ACA to be law, the republicans are doing what their constituency wants. I think there is a lot of politics playing into this as well, but that is on both sides

Exactly. People still do not want Obamacare, just as when the Democrats passed it. It is being forced upon us.

52% of Americans disapprove of Obamacare.
More Americans Disapprove of the Affordable Care Act

44% say it will make healthcare in America worse.
More in U.S. Say Health Law Effect Will Be Negative Than Positive

Its not like other means have not been tried. What are the supposed to do when the Democrats won't listen to the people they are supposed to be governed by?

In Congress, the GOP has voted more than 40 times to repeal, defund or dismantle ObamaCare, and states run by Republicans have often worked against the administration to undermine the law's rollout.

Read more: Disapproval of ObamaCare reaches new high, poll finds - The Hill's Healthwatch

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Right. It is all about the people who don't want to buy insurance and had nothing to do with the thousands of people with premiums that are doubling or tripling in cost for less coverage because they want to keep their coverage like Obama promised and don't want to be forced onto the exchanges.

We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Exactly. People still do not want Obamacare, just as when the Democrats passed it. It is being forced upon us.

52% of Americans disapprove of Obamacare.
More Americans Disapprove of the Affordable Care Act

44% say it will make healthcare in America worse.
More in U.S. Say Health Law Effect Will Be Negative Than Positive

Its not like other means have not been tried. What are the supposed to do when the Democrats won't listen to the people they are supposed to be governed by?

Read more: Disapproval of ObamaCare reaches new high, poll finds - The Hill's Healthwatch

I think it's Republicans that aren't listening to the people.

New Poll: Only One-Third Of Americans Support Repealing, Defunding Or Delaying Obamacare - Forbes

Polls consistently show that Americans aren’t happy with Obamacare. They think the law will make health care more expensive, and decrease its quality. But a new survey of 1,976 registered voters finds that only 33 percent believe that the health law should be repealed, delayed, or defunded. 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law,” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect” and see what happens, and 12 percent believe that the law should be expanded. The bottom line? Voters are skeptical that Obamacare will live up to Democrats’ hype. But they also believe that it should be given a chance to succeed.

The new poll was conducted by the Morning Consult, a healthcare media company founded by Michael Ramlet. Ramlet, in evaluating the results of his survey, finds that voters are “unmoved by three months of the defund argument,” and that a majority would “blame congressional Republicans a lot for a government shutdown.”

Americans oppose risking a government shutdown
Here are the numbers. 26 percent of the respondents identified as Republicans, compared to 42 percent Democrats and 31 percent independents. (This compares to a spread of 22 R / 31 D / 45 I in the most recent Gallup tracking poll.)
Ramlet asked: “If your Member of Congress supports efforts to defund the 2010 healthcare law, and the efforts lead to a government shutdown, would that make you more likely, or less likely, to vote for this legislator in the next election?” 42 percent of voters said “less likely,” 30 percent said “more likely,” and 28 percent said “no difference.” Among independents, the breakdown was 44-28-28, respectively; among whites, it was 41-32-27; among Hispanics, 46-34-21.

Voters would blame “Republicans in Congress if the current budget dispute leads to a government shutdown starting October 1.” 51 percent would blame them “a lot,” 21 percent “some,” and 17 percent “a little.” Only 12 percent would assign no blame to Republicans. But voters would also blame President Obama for a shutdown, albeit by slimmer margins: 41 percent “a lot,” 15 percent “some,” and 18 percent “a little.” For Congressional Democrats, the numbers were 36 percent “a lot,” 24 percent “some,” and 23 percent “a little.”

Voters believe, by a margin of 66-33, that the 2012 election “represented a referendum on moving forward with implementation of the 2010 health care law.” 24 percent strongly agreed with that sentence; 42 percent somewhat did; 17 percent somewhat disagreed; and 16 percent strongly disagreed.

Voters are skeptical of the law’s promises
Most polls show that voters disapprove of the 2010 health care law by significant margins. The Morning Consult’s poll did not. 46 percent of voters strongly or somewhat disapproved of “the health care legislation passed by Barack Obama and Congress in 2010,” whereas 48 percent somewhat or strongly approved. (The disapproval was more heartfelt; 32 percent strongly disapproved, whereas only 21 percent strongly approved.)

On the other hand, voters are deeply skeptical of the law’s promises to make health care more affordable. 57 percent believe that it will make health care “much more” or “somewhat more” expensive, whereas only 15 percent believe it will make health care “much less” or “somewhat less” expensive. 37 percent believe that the law will negatively affect the “availability of medical benefits,” whereas 23 percent believe it will improve access. 37 percent believe that the law will negatively affect “the quality of the medical care you receive,” whereas 20 percent believe it will improve it.

Two-thirds of voters want to give the law a chance to succeed
While voters are skeptical that the law will benefit them, they don’t agree with conservatives who say that it represents an existential threat to America. Only 26 percent of voters believe that “Congress should repeal the law,” and only 7 percent believe that “Congress should delay and defund the law.”

On the other hand, 29 percent believe that “Congress should make changes to improve the law.” 26 percent believe that “Congress should let the law take effect.” And 12 percent believe that “Congress should expand the law.”

33 percent of voters overall support repealing, defunding or delaying Obamacare. 65 percent of Republicans feel that way, compared to 37 percent of independents and 10 percent of Democrats. 18 percent of Hispanics support repeal, defund, or delay. Americans over the age of 65 are most strongly opposed to the law, with younger voters most supportive.

Have anti-Obamacare activists misread the public?
As you go through the Morning Consult report, this general attitude becomes clear. The public is deeply skeptical that Obamacare will make their lives better. Indeed, they largely believe that it will make health care more costly and less efficient. But they don’t view the law in the apocalyptic terms that many conservatives do. “The American people overwhelmingly reject Obamacare,” says Texas Sen. Ted Cruz. That may be, but neither do they support shutting down the government in order to repeal it.

Ted Cruz believes that Obamacare must be stopped now, because if it isn’t, the law just might become popular. But the irony is that Cruz may have it exactly wrong. If the public is right, that Obamacare will make health care worse rather than better, the law may become less popular over time. Either way, what the public wants above all else is for Republicans to propose legislation that will make the health care system better.

During Sen. Cruz’s 21-hour marathon speech on the Senate floor, he rightly cited many of the flaws and problems with our new health care law. But notably missing from his remarks was any attempt to address the real problems with our health care system, problems that conservative activists have neglected for 70-odd years. If Sen. Cruz cares about the sentiments of the American people as much as he says he does, he would be well served to consider that fact.

Bolding mine (except for the headings)

Alissa_Sal's picture
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hippocampus

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.

While I do not agree with using everyday American's lives as a bargaining chip, Republicans are trying to force Democrats to get rid of Obamacare. Just like Democrats tried to force Republicans to except it. This is the problem you have when you try to force a program that is not unilaterally accepted. Some of those republicans were voted in solely on the platform of getting rid of Obamacare. They are doing what they were voted in to do. That said, I do think it is rotten on both parts to think it is ok to gamble with the American people. A shut down should not have been on the table.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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Double Post

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

We are debating the government shut down. The Republicans are holding the government hostage over the individual mandate. They are a refusing to send the Senate a bill that doesn't delay the individual mandate. The consequence of not complying with the individual mandate is a $95 fine.

It didn't start out that way. They have asked for less each bill that has been passed in an attempt to compromise. What compromise have the Democrats even attempted to make? They won't even back down on the special subsidies put in place just for them. If it comes down to just the subsidies that Congress passed for themselves so they won't have to pay for Obamacare, will it still be the fault of the GOP?

The high-stakes legislative back-and-forth lasted for several days. The House first passed a funding bill two weeks ago, which defunded the health care law. The Senate responded by changing the legislation to fully fund the law. The House then passed several versions of its own bill to keep the fund the government — but with several caveats: first, defunding Obamacare; then a full year delay of Obamacare and a repeal of the medical device tax; then, a delay of Obamacare’s individual mandate and the cancelation of health-insurance subsidies for Capitol Hill lawmakers, aides and administration employees. The Senate dismissed each attempt.

Read more: Government shutdown 2013 - POLITICO.com

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

While I do not agree with using everyday American's lives as a bargaining chip, Republicans are trying to force Democrats to get rid of Obamacare. Just like Democrats tried to force Republicans to except it. This is the problem you have when you try to force a program that is not unilaterally accepted. Some of those republicans were voted in solely on the platform of getting rid of Obamacare. They are doing what they were voted in to do. That said, I do think it is rotten on both parts to think it is ok to gamble with the American people. A shut down should not have been on the table.

I don't recall Democrats ever saying they would shut down the government unless we got Obamacare. If we were going to go hog wild like that I wish we would have gone for the full Monty and done single payer instead of fooling around with this used-to-be-a-Conservative-plan-before-OH-NOES-OBAMA-SAID-IT-SO-IT-MUST-BE-EVIL!!!!

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

It didn't start out that way. They have asked for less each bill that has been passed in an attempt to compromise. What compromise have the Democrats even attempted to make? They won't even back down on the special subsidies put in place just for them. If it comes down to just the subsidies that Congress passed for themselves so they won't have to pay for Obamacare, will it still be the fault of the GOP?

Read more: Government shutdown 2013 - POLITICO.com

The individual mandate was the deal last night before the shut down. They could have backed out of it before midnight and not shut down the government. They didn't.

ClairesMommy's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

hippocampus

Ha ha. Smile

GloriaInTX's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

The individual mandate was the deal last night before the shut down. They could have backed out of it before midnight and not shut down the government. They didn't.

Maybe because they knew it wouldn't be the end of the world like everyone thinks. All essential services will continue like always. You didn't answer the question. If it comes down to the subsidy that Congress passed for themselves will it still be the GOP's fault?

And it still goes both ways. If the Individual Mandate is not such a big deal why didn't they just pass that bill so the government wouldn't have shut down?

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

We are debating the government shut down.

Maybe not over this issue, but democrats are no stranger to threatening a Government shut down.

Democrats Threaten Government Shutdown | FreedomWorks
The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : Democrat Senators Threaten Government Shutdown
Daily Kos: Rubio: "Obama is threatening to shut down the government unless we fund Obamacare"

The difference, is that with the threat of a Government shutdown, they worked hard to find a compromise so it would not happen.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Maybe because they knew it wouldn't be the end of the world like everyone thinks. All essential services will continue like always. You didn't answer the question. If it comes down to the subsidy that Congress passed for themselves will it still be the GOP's fault?

And it still goes both ways. If the Individual Mandate is not such a big deal why didn't they just pass that bill so the government wouldn't have shut down?

To the bolded - I don't know. I haven't read much about the subsidy. It seems far fetched, but if there is some plausible reason why it won't work without that then yes, I would blame the GOP. If there is not, then no, at that point I would blame the Senate Democrats for refusing to compromise.

As I said before, the mandate is a big deal because it encourages everyone to get healthcare, and we need everyone to buy in or else the insurance companies will implode and then we'll REALLY be up &%*$creek. But the reality is, there isn't a huge penalty for not complying. That's why freaking out and shutting down the government is so completely ridiculous and ham fisted. If people really hate Obamacare and don't want to buy in, they'll pay the $95 and it will fail and the Republicans can say "We told you so." At this point it's like they just have to have some sort of symbolic win to undermine Obamacare somehow so they can say that they did it. Lame.

And it's a pretty big deal to the Americans that aren't getting a paycheck because of it. Also, I think I read somewhere that it costs $300MM to shut down and restart the government. Plus the loss of confidence on Wall Street. It's not the end of the world but it's still a crappy thing to do.

Bonta, regarding the 1995 govt shut down (I glanced through your links, I am assuming that's what you're referring to?)

Looking back at the 1995 and 1996 government shutdowns, the public seemed to have made up its mind about fault: Far more said they blamed the shutdown on the GOP than on President Bill Clinton. When all was said and done, though, the shutdown had little impact on the nation’s political picture.

DIGITS: Facing deadline for government shutdown, most Americans prefer compromise - The Washington Post

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

If people really hate Obamacare and don't want to buy in, they'll pay the $95 and it will fail and the Republicans can say "We told you so."

It is not true to say that if you do not want to participate, then don't. There will no longer be any insurance other than the exchanges through DH's work. The good insurance that we already had is going away, forcing us to have the new insurance. Whatever else happens, saying "If you like your current insurance then you can keep it" was a big fat lie.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

It is not true to say that if you do not want to participate, then don't. There will no longer be any insurance other than the exchanges through DH's work. The good insurance that we already had is going away, forcing us to have the new insurance. Whatever else happens, saying "If you like your current insurance then you can keep it" was a big fat lie.

I'm confused about that Bonita - does your husband work part time or something? If you already want and have insurance than the individual mandate (which just says that you have to have insurance) shouldn't even affect you.

AlyssaEimers's picture
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"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I'm confused about that Bonita - does your husband work part time or something? If you already want and have insurance than the individual mandate (which just says that you have to have insurance) shouldn't even affect you.

No, he is a full time employee. He works in a school system in GA. There will no longer be insurance like we had before. Everyone will have to have Obamacare, only the school will contribute to it so it will not cost as much as if he did not work full time.

Alissa_Sal's picture
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"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

No, he is a full time employee. He works in a school system in GA. There will no longer be insurance like we had before. Everyone will have to have Obamacare, only the school will contribute to it so it will not cost as much as if he did not work full time.

I don't know about that - DH works for a school system in CO and he is still keeping his same insurance. :shrug: The whole "different in different states thing" is super confusing. Have you looked at the exchanges yet though? I just looked at the CO exchanges and we make too much to qualify for any subsidies, but if I bought what sounds like slightly better insurance on the exchange and my employer gave me half of what they currently pay to subsidize my health insurance, I would save about $80 bucks a month, and they would save $192 bucks a year even adding in the $3000 a year fine that they would pay for not offering me insurance. If you qualify for subsidies and his employer is paying towards it you could be getting your insurance dirt cheap if it is anything like it is here.

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"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Maybe because they knew it wouldn't be the end of the world like everyone thinks.

This is so insensitive to the people that this is affecting unwillingly. This is not trivial.

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"KimPossible" wrote:

This is so insensitive to the people that this is affecting unwillingly. This is not trivial.

Neither is Obamacare for the people it is affecting unwillingly. At least the people on furlough will eventually get paid. Who is going to pay the double and triple premiums for the people whose insurance went from $300 to $900 a month?

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Posts: 3312

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I don't know about that - DH works for a school system in CO and he is still keeping his same insurance. :shrug: The whole "different in different states thing" is super confusing. Have you looked at the exchanges yet though? I just looked at the CO exchanges and we make too much to qualify for any subsidies, but if I bought what sounds like slightly better insurance on the exchange and my employer gave me half of what they currently pay to subsidize my health insurance, I would save about $80 bucks a month, and they would save $192 bucks a year even adding in the $3000 a year fine that they would pay for not offering me insurance. If you qualify for subsidies and his employer is paying towards it you could be getting your insurance dirt cheap if it is anything like it is here.

My husband's company looked into it and determined that BOTH the company AND its employees would save money if the company were to give them a stipend to use to contribute to them finding their own insurance.

Alissa_Sal's picture
Joined: 06/29/06
Posts: 6427

"KimPossible" wrote:

My husband's company looked into it and determined that BOTH the company AND its employees would save money if the company were to give them a stipend to use to contribute to them finding their own insurance.

That's what I am thinking too, depending on the stipend of course.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Neither is Obamacare for the people it is affecting unwillingly. At least the people on furlough will eventually get paid. Who is going to pay the double and triple premiums for the people whose insurance went from $300 to $900 a month?

I'll just repeat my other post. Its clear to me that you think its personally justifiable to force this through at the expense of peoples well being at this time. Some people can't wait three weeks or however long it will take to get paid. I was listening to the radio and it was talking about head start and how that is where some kids are getting their one and only quality meal for the day. My area THRIVES on the fall tourism at Acadia National Park. You feel strongly about Obamacare....and you feel justified in the economic damage this bullying is causing and the well-being of individuals these antics are at the expense of. You skirt acknowledging that in each and ever single post by saying "Yeah but two years ago someone did something I don't like" "yeah but 3 yaers from now I think healthcare will be in a state that i don't like" If thats all it takes for you to justify the ramifications of this decision then fine for you.

I cannot think of any single issue that has been on the table lately that I want that would justify doing this to people and our economy. I do not think it is okay to use those things as a bargaining chip.

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Joined: 07/29/08
Posts: 4116

"KimPossible" wrote:

I cannot think of any single issue that has been on the table lately that I want that would justify doing this to people and our economy. I do not think it is okay to use those things as a bargaining chip.

And I feel just as strongly about what I think Obamacare is going to do to our economy. In fact I think it is going to be MUCH worse than the government shutting down for a few days. Talk to all the people who are working part time already and now getting their hours cut back another 10 hours a week and see if they aren't feeling the hurt.

mommytoMR.FACE's picture
Joined: 04/10/09
Posts: 781

I blame children. They're stubborn and don't want to listen to anyone.

KimPossible's picture
Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

And I feel just as strongly about what I think Obamacare is going to do to our economy. In fact I think it is going to be MUCH worse than the government shutting down for a few days. Talk to all the people who are working part time already and now getting their hours cut back another 10 hours a week and see if they aren't feeling the hurt.

you seem incapable of commenting on if THIS is an okay thing to do...and only capable of commenting on obamacare. Or are you trying to say you think two wrongs make a right. Or are you jjust saying this as an acceptable way for the gop to demand this change.

AlyssaEimers's picture
Joined: 08/22/06
Posts: 6561

"Alissa_Sal" wrote:

I don't know about that - DH works for a school system in CO and he is still keeping his same insurance. :shrug: The whole "different in different states thing" is super confusing. Have you looked at the exchanges yet though? I just looked at the CO exchanges and we make too much to qualify for any subsidies, but if I bought what sounds like slightly better insurance on the exchange and my employer gave me half of what they currently pay to subsidize my health insurance, I would save about $80 bucks a month, and they would save $192 bucks a year even adding in the $3000 a year fine that they would pay for not offering me insurance. If you qualify for subsidies and his employer is paying towards it you could be getting your insurance dirt cheap if it is anything like it is here.

I am for sure. They have already released the numbers. I think the Silver plan will be around $350 a month. I do not know what the silver plan covers though.

"GloriaInTX" wrote:

Neither is Obamacare for the people it is affecting unwillingly. At least the people on furlough will eventually get paid. Who is going to pay the double and triple premiums for the people whose insurance went from $300 to $900 a month?

While I am not in love with Obamacare, the people who are furlowed will never get paid for this time that they are missing from work. I know people who are not sure how they are going to put food on the table because they were sent home from work today and will never get that money back.

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Joined: 05/24/06
Posts: 3312

"AlyssaEimers" wrote:

While I am not in love with Obamacare, the people who are furlowed will never get paid for this time that they are missing from work. I know people who are not sure how they are going to put food on the table because they were sent home from work today and will never get that money back.

Last time this happened, people were payed back retroactively...and its been said that will likely happen again.

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